[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

...Overall, do I like the trade? Yes. But I don't disagree with those who were and are weary.

Leery? Wary?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Leery? Wary?

Weary like Larry?

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by jg13

Lol singled out. I guess the 26 thanks (was closer to 40 at one time but they went back and removed after the success Hanafin and Lindholm had early on) I received didn't make me the only one who thought that at the time.

Once the contract situations played out and the news that Fox was not going to sign with us I admitted I was wrong in that thread prior to the season starting.

Not to pick on you, but I guess the lesson is we should wait until all the details are known and games are played before we make concrete statements about who won and who lost?

I'll also admit, I thought losing Hamilton was going to hurt big time, as I was skeptical about Brodie returning to form and Canes' fans were all saying that Hanifin was pretty sheltered. I was told Lindholm's shot sucked and his 45pts as a career high certainly didn't look any better then Ferland's career season he just had.

I think it's fair to say that no one could have expected the impact this trade has had up to date for the Flames. A shakeup was definitely needed. But I don't think anyone could have expected these results, even those who thought we won the trade. It's still early, but I'm hoping history shows this to be one of the best trades this franchise has ever made.

As much as I too love doing it, it's probably not fair to go back in time to point out when people are proven wrong. But then again, the internet is forever so people also shouldn't be surprised when someone goes back in time and points it out.

The good news is, in the end it doesn't matter who was right or wrong! We're all Flames fans who want to see the team do well. Since the '04 run we've suffered through overrated teams, under-achieving lineups, dumb trades, and a rebuild that's had its ups and downs. Finally...finally it looks like things are coming together not only for this season, but years to come .

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I think this will be a good trade for the Flames. Adam Fox was never going to play for us at the NHL and Ferland has capped out his talent level. Lindholm and Hanifin strike me as younger, better, cheaper, and more controlled than Ferland and Hamilton respectively. Clearly Hamilton is not fitting in around the dressing room and that's a major concern for such a big piece of the core, and now Brodie can go back to playing with Gio. In my mind, Lindolm will have 30 points in 28 games with 13 of those being goals well on his way to smashing his personal best season, and Hanifin will have 13, outscoring Hamilton by 4. Both will score goals in the Blue Jackets game on December 4 on a day the Dow drops by 600 points and George HW Bush's body is displayed in the Capital rotunda

Nailed it, can't believe I'm so smart.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Leery? Wary?

Umm...those who are wearing the the devil's advocate hat. Yeah. I'll go with that.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

But I don't disagree with those who were and are weary.

Women get wooly, they don't get weary. It's because of all the stress... or maybe because they're wearing the same old dress.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I had to go back and see my initial thoughts. I feel pretty good about this.

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I haven't read this thread. I'm going to be in the minority, but I love this deal.

Hamilton just didn't have that extra gear. I never saw it. I never felt that he gave any extra effort on any given night. While he has elite talents, he doesn't have that drive necessary to become an elite player and a driver of the team. This is all based on personal observations of his demeanor and play on the ice, so obviously it's a pretty weak opinion based on evidence, but I still believe this to be true. I think the culture shift began and ended with a guy like Hamilton. Points are great, and I know we're starved for offense, but I really think this team's problems are about chemistry and mental fortitude rather than just skill.

I like Ferland, but he's terribly inconsistent. When he's on, he's freakin' scary. When he's off, he's barely noticeable. He's off way more than he's on. While he might turn into something better than a 15 goal 30 point power forward, I think that last year's season is probably his career year. Selling high on Ferland is a smart, smart move by Treliving.

Fox has great tools, and he can dominate the college level, but I've watched him (in limited viewings) and his skating turns me off. I don't think he can skate nearly well enough to be an effective NHLer. Just my opinion, but his acceleration is terrible, his top speed is just meh, and he doesn't have the balance or edging you need to be a great offensive defenseman in the NHL. His vision and passing are off the charts. His hockey IQ is great. It might get him to the league, but I don't know for how long. I think he's the 4th best defensive prospect we have after Valimaki, Andersson, and Kylington. I'm not going to sweat losing our 4th best defense prospect.


Lindholm is a high IQ center/winger who already puts up 40 points a year and is still very young. I don't know what he'll become, but if he stays there that's still good enough for me. If he improves some and becomes a 50-60 point guy. That's a major shot in the arm to the offense.

Hanifin is the lynchpin to the whole thing. IF he turns out as projected, this is a major homerun. If he doesn't become much more than he is right now, that's still ok because of the defense depth we have.


We basically got two young stars in the making for a star defenseman with questionable work ethic/motivation, an inconsistent 3rd line power forward, and our 4th best defense prospect. I'm ok with this deal. I think it's pretty even.

It turned out so much better than I expected, and I still expected it to turn out well. Gotta love it when that happens.

[heep223]

I loved Ferland but I unexpectedly love Lindholm even more. What a trade. Don’t miss Douglas in the slightest.

[driveway]

So, idly thinking here, Ferland is a UFA at the end of this season. Let's say he hits the market.

What would you re-sign him for? One 20g 20a season, this season on pace for 37g 14a ... let's say he finishes with 30g 20a.

He'll be 27 at the end of this season ... if he DOES get 30 goals he'll be expensive, and probably looking to cash in with one big contract. ... could we find a way to convince him to take around what Lindholm got? Would it be worth it?

[Jore]

Originally Posted by driveway

So, idly thinking here, Ferland is a UFA at the end of this season. Let's say he hits the market.

What would you re-sign him for? One 20g 20a season, this season on pace for 37g 14a ... let's say he finishes with 30g 20a.

He'll be 27 at the end of this season ... if he DOES get 30 goals he'll be expensive, and probably looking to cash in with one big contract. ... could we find a way to convince him to take around what Lindholm got? Would it be worth it?

i'd take him for what lindholm got if we can offload neal and/or frolik. he might want a bigger role than can be guaranteed here, however.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Man, not to toot my own horn but I come out of the initial reactions looking like a genius.

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...3&postcount=58

This is a rare instance of "tooting your own horn for tooting your own horn"

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

We all know abut Lindholm's impressive play this season.

But I think Noah Hanifin is starting to become a real offensive catalyst on the backend. He had a rough start offensively, but the last month of play from him has been a revelation.

First 13 games = 0 goals, 2 assists, 2 points

Last 15 games = 3 goals, 8 assists, 11 points (60 point pace)

I think he's just scratching the surface as well. In a few years from now, he could become an offensive force when Gio starts/or ever slows down.

Very real possibility he becomes our Seth Jones. Lots of comparables between the two.

[Buff]

I was sad to see Hamilton go. A bit worried actually.

Now I'm glad that he is gone. Quite pleased actually.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by the2bears

This is a rare instance of "tooting your own horn for tooting your own horn"

Its a twoot

[Bingo]

I think one of the biggest issues at the time of the trade was the number of fans that were focused completely on the ice and not on the contract control, ages and asset management.

3 more years of Hamilton and he would be gone. 1 more year of Ferland and he'd be unaffordable. And a prospect that wasn't going to sign here. Bring in two top players with only RFA rights and the hammer in negotiations to get them done long term.

If those were taken into account it was clear that the Flames actually bought themselves some time and control in the deal essentially extending their window, not damaging it.

From there it all come down to Hamilton or what Hamilton is.

If you believed he was carrying an aging defenseman and was headed to new career heights in Carolina you were worried. If you felt something was off on his "metrics" and that Giordano played a role in propping him up you saw it as selling high, and then maybe fixing the dressing room if the player was a problem.

Lindholm over Ferland was always obvious to me, both have good seasons.
Hamilton over Hanifin was the gap discussion and it's certainly narrowed quicker than I expected.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by driveway

So, idly thinking here, Ferland is a UFA at the end of this season. Let's say he hits the market.

What would you re-sign him for? One 20g 20a season, this season on pace for 37g 14a ... let's say he finishes with 30g 20a.

He'll be 27 at the end of this season ... if he DOES get 30 goals he'll be expensive, and probably looking to cash in with one big contract. ... could we find a way to convince him to take around what Lindholm got? Would it be worth it?

Nope. First, he actually has to return to the lineup to get the production you are estimating. Second, the reason he is out is very concerning to me given his history. Third, even if he is scoring, he is not a guy with the toolbox Lindholm has. Not a centre, not as fast, not as good defensively, not a RHS.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Nope. First, he actually has to return to the lineup to get the production you are estimating. Second, the reason he is out is very concerning to me given his history. Third, even if he is scoring, he is not a guy with the toolbox Lindholm has. Not a centre, not as fast, not as good defensively, not a RHS.

Agreed. I'm not interested in bringing Ferland back in any capacity as he's going to be overpaid for what he brings to the table.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think one of the biggest issues at the time of the trade was the number of fans that were focused completely on the ice and not on the contract control, ages and asset management.

3 more years of Hamilton and he would be gone. 1 more year of Ferland and he'd be unaffordable. And a prospect that wasn't going to sign here. Bring in two top players with only RFA rights and the hammer in negotiations to get them done long term.

If those were taken into account it was clear that the Flames actually bought themselves some time and control in the deal essentially extending their window, not damaging it.

From there it all come down to Hamilton or what Hamilton is.

If you believed he was carrying an aging defenseman and was headed to new career heights in Carolina you were worried. If you felt something was off on his "metrics" and that Giordano played a role in propping him up you saw it as selling high, and then maybe fixing the dressing room if the player was a problem.

Lindholm over Ferland was always obvious to me, both have good seasons.
Hamilton over Hanifin was the gap discussion and it's certainly narrowed quicker than I expected.

That's a good point. Most of us (myself included) simply highlight a players name, copy it into Google, and open their hockeydb site to see the stats. That is how the large majority of people decide in their minds who win/loses trade.

But there were so many other things to consider. Luckily a good GM takes those things into consideration.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Nope. First, he actually has to return to the lineup to get the production you are estimating. Second, the reason he is out is very concerning to me given his history. Third, even if he is scoring, he is not a guy with the toolbox Lindholm has. Not a centre, not as fast, not as good defensively, not a RHS.

I didn't know Ferland was out of the lineup. How long? What is the story?

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I didn't know Ferland was out of the lineup. How long? What is the story?

Concussion