Let’s trade all of our picks for more Travis Hamonics so we can ice a team of second pairing defensemen!
Heaven forbid some want to look at how another team is able to garner some success.
Except this is not how Boston has garnered success. One could argue this is how they are maintaining it, but they were not a bottom team any time during the period discussed.
Being able to turn a player of Hamilton's caliber into 3 picks in the first 2 rounds, means you have to be able to afford such a players loss without any immediate lineup return.
Except this is not how Boston has garnered success. One could argue this is how they are maintaining it, but they were not a bottom team any time during the period discussed.
Being able to turn a player of Hamilton's caliber into 3 picks in the first 2 rounds, means you have to be able to afford such a players loss without any immediate lineup return.
I think it’s interesting how they have accumulated or atleast maintained their draft picks while they have remained a very competitive team. Yeah it’s not how they won the Cup but they seem to be avoiding a bottoming out.
Flames conversely feel more urgency to get competitive. Which is understandable given where they’ve been.
I don’t believe Bruins are necessarily any better positioned for the medium range future than the Flames but you have to like their track record.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Strange Brew For This Useful Post:
I think DeBrusk contributed in Game 7 against the Leafs, with 2 goals, including the game winner. The goal in game 4 definitely contributed as well. I guess it comes down to your definition of "many".
I get the bullets in the chamber give you more chances. But if you look at what Boston did with those chances it ends up being Hamilton for Zachary Senyshyn, Jakob Forsbacka-Karlsson, and Jeremy Lauzon. Flames got 245 games out of Hamilton and parlayed him into to some other pieces. Those pieces have played a total of one game. Early and time will tell, but sometimes whats in the other box is disappointing.
I've been humming and hawing on this for weeks. The second you try and dissect Hamilton it looks like you're trying to bring him down to justify a trade - which never looks great.
I saw that comparison as well. In fact I approached the author to discuss his counting methods on the defensive side of the puck. Was that an on ice event? Or an individual event? I was expecting it to be on ice, but he did in fact count events that involved the individual.
What does it say?
Hamilton is an elite pucks to the net defenseman, something that makes it all the more criminal that he had to watch the #1 powerplay unit for up to three months last season. No idea how that happened or could happen. He gets pucks to the net. This does two things ... 1) it creates offence because he's getting it through that first wall of defense consistently which takes talent and 2) plays a huge active role in creating his own positive corsi numbers and for that of his linemates.
His assists were down from his shot attempts this season, which I'm not sure you can hang on him. That could say he was upping the number of muffins that got into the slot which didn't create rebounds or scoring chances. Or it could say he was victim of the Flame's collectively terrible shooting percentage that went on all season. Probably a bit of both.
The rest? Above average but not elite. His entry and exit stats are more second pairing by the looks of it, and overall his shot attempts seem to push him further up the list when it comes to analytics than his play perhaps would dictate; all of that prefaced on the counting stats of another that I certainly can't validate in any way.
The eye test? I think we all see why his counting stats are high because he shoots all the time. As I said above this is an elite skill and it's effective as hell at creating offence, but it's also a very good way to get your corsi stats up through the roof. But other than that I honestly can't say I ever viewed Hamilton as a shut down guy, a crease clearer, or an end to end rusher. Many of the other roles of a defenseman he wasn't all that noticeable as dominant.
Noah Hanifin
Gets more interesting when you see Hamilton's 17/18 season against Noah Hanifin.
This isn't an eye test for me, I haven't seen Hanifin enough.
But simple data suggests last season, Hanifin was inferior to Hamilton in shot metrics, though said inferiority is actually stronger in counts than the percentiles for the rest of Hamilton's game so it's not like he was weak.
Hanifin is elite or approaching elite on controlled entries and exits ... the guy can keep the puck and just skate by people which is a pretty exciting 200 foot add to a team that is looking to play with more speed.
Defensively he's not dynamo, which is expected at his age, but he doesn't give up lot in comparison to Hamilton on the same measures.
Finally ... why did Hamilton take a step back last season, your original question. Seems to me the best way to maybe not answer that question, but at least bring relevant data into the discussion is a similar year over year look at Giordano. If his numbers eroded the same way it could be a change in style, or the pairing suffering together.
Mark Giordano
Same up tick in shot attempts. Improvement or stays the same in other categories.
So yeah I think you could suggest that Hamilton pushed the envelope somewhat offensively last season.
Either way interesting thing to look at, and it's added a little more excitement to Hanifin as well.
The Following 25 Users Say Thank You to Bingo For This Useful Post:
^thanks for this Bingo. I suppose if nothing else, Hamilton could be an elite PP producer. Everything else might depend on how much he wants to improve.
Not usually a guy big on advanced metrics but appreciate these Bingo, they really do make things more interesting looking at the difference we'll soon grow to see with Hanifin in over Dougie.
Again there's no denying Dougie was great offensively, its a shame like you said he wasnt used on the PP for the first quarter of the season.
With that being said Hanifin could turn out to be a real gem here given his possession/entry stats as Calgary's zone takes have been abysmal for a few years now, especially on the PP.
Not usually a guy big on advanced metrics but appreciate these Bingo, they really do make things more interesting looking at the difference we'll soon grow to see with Hanifin in over Dougie.
Again there's no denying Dougie was great offensively, its a shame like you said he wasnt used on the PP for the first quarter of the season.
With that being said Hanifin could turn out to be a real gem here given his possession/entry stats as Calgary's zone takes have been abysmal for a few years now, especially on the PP.
5 more weeks give or take
Pretty easy to summarize the following;
Hamilton is elite at shot generation and shot suppression, but Giordano has almost the identical metrics which has the obvious question of who is helping who, or are they equally dominant?
Outside of that Hamilton is a second tier guy for entries, exits and defending the rush ...
Hanifin is a wizard at entries and exits and doesn't appear to give up as much as Hamilton on the rush, but pales when compared in shot generation and suppression though Hanifin looks pretty good from a defensive standpoint as well.
I get the bullets in the chamber give you more chances. But if you look at what Boston did with those chances it ends up being Hamilton for Zachary Senyshyn, Jakob Forsbacka-Karlsson, and Jeremy Lauzon. Flames got 245 games out of Hamilton and parlayed him into to some other pieces. Those pieces have played a total of one game. Early and time will tell, but sometimes whats in the other box is disappointing.
Not to mention DeBrusk, Zboril and Senyshyn could've been Matt Barzal, Kyle Conner and Brock Boeser if the Bruins had simply let the Hockey News run their draft.
Hamilton is elite at shot generation and shot suppression, but Giordano has almost the identical metrics which has the obvious question of who is helping who, or are they equally dominant?...
Well, for me it is about as simple as this: Giordano has passed the eye test with virtually every other defensmean with whom he has been paired over the course of the past five years. Hamilton most certainly has not.
I think it is most likely that Giordano was more integral to Hamilton's success than vice versa.
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
This is one thing I am really looking forward to with Hanifin - rushing the puck up ice and creating off the rush.
Hartley got a lot out of his team with stretch passes, but then this was coached against and led to him being relieved of duties as he failed to adapt.
Gulutzan emphasized skating with the puck, but I feel his teams lacked a reliable zone entry player. His emphasis on shot generation to lead to secondary chances both led to an uptick in Hamilton's shot generation, but also felt like the team took too many bad shots for the sake of shooting.
Now add a guy who they new coach is familiar with who is elite at zone exit and entry - now you have the play driver to play a faster game, and if he can suck defenders in, a lot more space for guys like Gaudreau, Lindholm, Backlund, etc. to find passes and set up high danger scoring chances for Monahan, Neal, Tkachuk, etc. And if he cannot suck defenders in and dish the puck, but he can work on his shot, then he can create for himself.
This also adds a dimension to the PP and Hanifin should be the first guy over the boards if the Flames lose the offensive zone. I am sure I am not alone in being so tired of the Flames PP that loses the zone, then seems to spend an eternity trying to reestablish presence, either turning over at the line or dump and chase resulting in contested pucks.
Add to this that Hanifin is young and still adding to his game, and this could be a deal that transforms the on-ice product in a big way.
I liked Hamilton (save his propensity to give up penalties) but this trade changes the look of the team and has a lot of potential.
The NHL Network had Dougie ranked at 18 for the best 20 defensemen in the NHL and Gio wasn't even part of the five names who just missed their list. This year will be quite interesting to see how it plays out.
Quote:
18. Dougie Hamilton, Carolina Hurricanes
Hamilton's 17 goals for the Flames last season were tied for the NHL lead by a defenseman (Hedman, Provorov). He has scored double-digit goals and had at least 42 points (44 in 2017-18) in four consecutive seasons. Traded to the Hurricanes on June 23, the 25-year-old had NHL career highs in power-play goals (six), shots on goal (270) and average ice time (21:32).
The Quest stands upon the edge of a knife. Stray but a little, and it will fail, to the ruin of all. Yet hope remains while the Company is true. Go Flames Go!
Hamilton is elite at shot generation and shot suppression, but Giordano has almost the identical metrics which has the obvious question of who is helping who, or are they equally dominant?
Outside of that Hamilton is a second tier guy for entries, exits and defending the rush ...
Hanifin is a wizard at entries and exits and doesn't appear to give up as much as Hamilton on the rush, but pales when compared in shot generation and suppression though Hanifin looks pretty good from a defensive standpoint as well.
To oversimplify - basically two guys who are good at completely different things and therefore it is possibly a mistake to try and say "which one is better" (not that you are trying to do that).
This actually advances my view quite a bit. In some ways, I think the Flames need the things Hanifin is good at more than the things Hamilton was good at. Particularly the zone exits.
