Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I'm a huge Bennett supporter but 70 points is a preposterous goal. If he can score more than 40 points, I'd already consider it that a win for us Benny boosters. I love the guy, but I just don't see him having enough hockey iq to ever get 70 points. I'd really love to be proven wrong, however.

The only way he can get to 70 points is if Doc Brown jumps back to 1988 and brings Makarov here. If he could get Roberts to 50 goals he could get Bennett to 70 points.

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by New Era

If Bennett gets traded he'll get a very short string to produce then likely be out of the NHL in two years.

I'm definitely among those who think that Sammy is a typical tunnel-vision, severely-limited hockey sense type player who's probably topped out in terms of his offensive potential. But even I think he's an NHL player.

A $2.5 mln NHL player? Nope. A $1.25 mln 3/4 line tweener who I think can be trained to be a PK specialist? I'd call that the ceiling, for sure.

But I don't think he's on the cusp of being out of the league. He's a decent role player who might throw a little excitement your way with the occasional hit. His skating should keep him in the league. All the tools, no toolbox. Amen.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

The only way he can get to 70 points is if Doc Brown jumps back to 1988 and brings Makarov here. If he could get Roberts to 50 goals he could get Bennett to 70 points.

*sticks him on the second line with Tkachuk and Lindholm*

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

*sticks him on the second line with Tkachuk and Lindholm*

Well do we want playoffs or not?!!?

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Yeah, it's infuriating that the coaches give that slot to a player who is unquestionably better at every aspect of the game except fighting and taking undisciplined penalties.

Can Bennett boosters explain why he isn't trusted to kill penalties, despite being a pretty good skater?

Meh, Lucic/Benny/Dube were doing just fine...I never said anything about Bennett on the PK.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Itse

I'm sure Bennett could still get close to 40 points as a second line player today.



Which is kind of the problem.

They try him occasionally with better players but he brings them down. It would be a no brainer to play Sam as the 2L and move Chucky or Gaudreau to 1RW if it were that easy. Why don't they just do that? It would be like getting a free 40 point player.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

They try him occasionally with better players but he brings them down. It would be a no brainer to play Sam as the 2L and move Chucky or Gaudreau to 1RW if it were that easy. Why don't they just do that? It would be like getting a free 40 point player.

Well, if we are asking ‘why’ type questions...

Why did they put Bennett back on the wing of Jankowski when he seemed to perform better as C with Dube and Lucic?

Why did they try to turn Backlund in to a winger?

Why did they put Bennett / Lucic , etc. out down by a goal instead of calling a timeout and throwing back out Gaudreau et al. who had just scored?

Why did they deploy Buddy Robinson on the top line wing?

Why are the Flames playing dump and chase?

(Combining the above two, the consequence was a stupefying play I will never forget where Buddy Robinson dumped it in the corner for Gaudreau to go dig it out)


So yeah. It’s not like we don’t have a plethora of questions where we could point to ‘coaching IQ’



And people need to quit saying they try him with better linemates.

They don’t. The data is there and it is clear.

What would it even look like if they did give him some time at his natural position, C , with good wingers?

A lot of people complain about Monahan’s tenacity - well, given that Johnny likes to carry the puck, and Bennett plays a heavy game and can create space, given that Bennett was drafted as a C but has been asked to play wing, I think there is a good chance he could be quite successful in terms of complementary styles with Gaudreau and Lindholm.

Bennett is, after all, scoring even strength goals at the same rate as Monahan, with much, much worse linemates. He isn’t getting any assists with his main linemate Janko playing like a cream puff and shooting 5%.

70 points is a lot, but I don’t think it is even unreasonable. A motivated Bennett with good linemates and PP time could easily be 60 plus

[GioforPM]

They are using Bennett on Jankowski’s wing most likely because Janko is a worse winger than Bennett is a good centre.

They tried Backlund at wing because it made sense on paper and to get Lindholm a crack at centre.

They had a long time to go with a goal left after Monahan scored the first and with an empty net. So they were going to end up using two lines anyway. Might as well give a rest right away and save the timeout until the very end after a puck freeze, if it happened.

They tried Buddy on the top line because of Johnny and because it worked pretty well for a game.

The Flames play dump and chase because the forwards are not moving the puck up ice quick enough, and are getting stopped at the blue line, leaving them no choice. It’s not being coached that way.

Bottom line, yeah Bennett would be better at centre. The answer isn’t to break up a line that has worked very well. It’s to get rid of Jankowski and use Bennett at centre between two decent young wingers.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They are using Bennett on Jankowski’s wing most likely because Janko is a worse winger than Bennett is a good centre.

[CLIP]

Bottom line, yeah Bennett would be better at centre. The answer isn’t to break up a line that has worked very well. It’s to get rid of Jankowski and use Bennett at centre between two decent young wingers.

If this analysis was correct (assuming the coaches have known what they were doing - that might be questioned), Bennett would go to centre and Janko would have been either be benched in favour of one of the other roster or Stockton forwards), or else Janko would be played as a winger (he has been able to play there). If Bennett's a better centre, then surely we would have seen Bennett centring Rinaldo/Czarnik and Reider.
Centre is a position with more two-way responsibilities than a winger, and the only logical explanation for the current status of Janko playing centre ahead of Bennett is that Janko's a better 4th line centre than Bennett.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

If this analysis was correct (assuming the coaches have known what they were doing - that might be questioned), Bennett would go to centre and Janko would have been either be benched in favour of one of the other roster or Stockton forwards), or else Janko would be played as a winger (he has been able to play there). If Bennett's a better centre, then surely we would have seen Bennett centring Rinaldo/Czarnik and Reider.
Centre is a position with more two-way responsibilities than a winger, and the only logical explanation for the current status of Janko playing centre ahead of Bennett is that Janko's a better 4th line centre than Bennett.

No, the possibility, which I thought I made clear, is that Janko is a slightly worse centre than Bennett, but that Bennett is a way better winger than Janko. And that none of the other players are adequate replacements if you sit Janko.

It’s also a possibility, I agree, that Bennett is not good at C either and just looked better because of Lucic and Dube, who both play solid two way hockey.

[Harry Lime]

^ except that over the last month, we have seen proof that Bennett is a better centre than Janko, and it doesn't seem to matter with deployment. I actually think that the defensive side of the puck is one of Bennett's strengths.

^^ I've been an advocate of splitting up Gaudreau and Monahan (except for powerplays) for about a year and a half now. I didn't want to bring up the possible synergy in style between Johnny and Bennett because of the inevitable backlash, but honestly the styles do seem complimentary.

[Gaskal]

70 pt Sam Bennett? Not unless he's playing top line C the entire year while given PP1 duties. Really depends on how he's used.

I think 30 pts is a very solid target if he's mostly on 4th line duties with no powerplay time. 3rd line duty + PP2 time I'd hope for something like 40 pts.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

^ except that over the last month, we have seen proof that Bennett is a better centre than Janko, and it doesn't seem to matter with deployment. I actually think that the defensive side of the puck is one of Bennett's strengths.

^^ I've been an advocate of splitting up Gaudreau and Monahan (except for powerplays) for about a year and a half now. I didn't want to bring up the possible synergy in style between Johnny and Bennett because of the inevitable backlash, but honestly the styles do seem complimentary.

Bennett played C with Lucic and Dube only no? I think it remains to be seen what he’d do at C between say, Reider and Czarnik or Reider and Rinaldo (or even Reider and Jankowski).

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

*sticks him on the second line with Tkachuk and Lindholm*

If it were simply a matter of playing Bennett higher up the lineup, he wouldn't be such a misfit toy.

Bennett is a good, not great, skater with good, not great, hands who has one move and an okay shot. He also has a unique ability to take awful penalities 200 feet from his net at the exact moment that would most convince his coaches that he can't be trusted on the top lines.

He's the exact sort of player who becomes a liability as soon as he gets paid any significant money.

His style lends itself to some noteworthy playoff moments, especially early in the first round when everyone smashes into each other like they're playing hockey in a particle accelerator. But he's not able to consistently make high level high IQ plays that win games in rounds 3 and 4.

Hall of Fame duster, though.

[Flash Walken]

this thread is so funny

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

70 pt Sam Bennett? Not unless he's playing top line C the entire year while given PP1 duties. Really depends on how he's used.

I think 30 pts is a very solid target if he's mostly on 4th line duties with no powerplay time. 3rd line duty + PP2 time I'd hope for something like 40 pts.

If it were that easy, they would have Bennett on the top line right now. I think if he were on the top line, he would become a 40-50 point player tops. I'm not sure Johnny would like it though, or Tkachuk.

I honestly don't think Bennett has the offensive acumen to keep up with elite players. I dont think there is a grand conspiracy keeping Bennett down, he's just not a good offensive player even though sometimes he looks like he should be and some of the fancy stats say he is.

A true 1st line talent can make those around him better. He should be elevating even 3rd and 4th liners but the bottom 6 in Calgary is always lacking even with Bennett as a fixture. He's a complimentary grinder at the NHL level. I don't think people will come to grips with this until he moves on and continues putting up 20-30 points on another team.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

70 points is a lot, but I don’t think it is even unreasonable. A motivated Bennett with good linemates and PP time could easily be 60 plus

A motivated Bennett? You mean he hasn't been motivated the past five years? What is the reason behind this? Probably everything but Sam Bennett, right?

And you believe that Bennett could score 70 points, all it would take is good linemates? The top scorers on this team are just at ~60 points and might crack 70, if things go right for the Flames down the stretch. But Bennett is good for 70 points, because he's in the same class of player and finisher as Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan, and Lindholm, right? You do recognize that to hit that level of production Bennett would become one of the top 20 players in the game? Even a 60 point player would put him in the top 50 players. How the hell is Sam Bennett going to jump from his current level of play to that of the best players in the game?

I also don't get the whole PP angle. Prior to this season Bennett was 8th in PP time from 2015-2019, 5th for forwards (470:35). What more does he need? In that time (311 games) Bennett generated 21 PP points. For comparison, Kris Versteeg generated the same number of points in only 93 games. He's had opportunity and he hasn't got it done. But he just needs more time and better linemates?

[ForeverFlameFan]

This is the year to trade him. As little as he counts towards the cap, we could use that 2.5m elsewhere.

[Flash Walken]

I'm starting to think Jobo was just trolling with this thread bump.

What on earth was the catalyst for this?

6-3-1 in their last 10, tkachuk line absolutely blowing the doors off, gaudreau line seemingly coming alive. Lucic has 3 points in his last 5 games, dube and ryan aren't producing a lot, but still have a couple of points in the last 5.

The flames have been just fine in the last 10 games with bennett getting less than 12 minutes in all but one of them (detroit, 13:04).

Why bump this thread now?

[browna]

^ 4 days between games gets a lot of old threads dusted off.