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Old 05-25-2022, 10:13 PM   #641
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Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
but overall it evens out.
I would be interested in seeing a list of total number of playoff series won in the past 30 postseasons by each franchise. I have a feeling the list isn't as even as your theory would suggest it should be. I mean, Vegas has won more series in their 5 years of existence than the Flames have in the past 32.
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Old 05-25-2022, 10:31 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by Mathgod View Post
I would be interested in seeing a list of total number of playoff series won in the past 30 postseasons by each franchise. I have a feeling the list isn't as even as your theory would suggest it should be. I mean, Vegas has won more series in their 5 years of existence than the Flames have in the past 32.
I think it would absolutely support what Iím saying. Youíd have a few extremes on either end and a bunch of teams in the middle. Itíll be a bell curve, or close to it.

But I donít see how vegasí success relative to the flames is relevant.
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Old 05-25-2022, 10:34 PM   #643
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Originally Posted by Mathgod View Post
I would be interested in seeing a list of total number of playoff series won in the past 30 postseasons by each franchise. I have a feeling the list isn't as even as your theory would suggest it should be. I mean, Vegas has won more series in their 5 years of existence than the Flames have in the past 32.
I did this on here a couple years ago, after we lost to Dallas IIRC.
There was very few teams with the Flames & Oilers near the bottom.
The list is eye opening & depressing.
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Old 05-25-2022, 10:46 PM   #644
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A lot of people on here thought the Panthers would do well despite having zero (now one) series win since 1996

I bet a bunch of us deep down assumed an OT loss for the Flames in game 7 of round one too when we got there but they pulled that off

who knows
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Old 05-25-2022, 11:07 PM   #645
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How does that hang around from generation to generation? It truly is frustrating.
Have you heard of the gorilla experiment? It's a story that's used to explain how difficult change is for established organizations.

It goes something like this...

Put five gorillas in the cage. In the centre of the cage is a banana, hanging just out of the gorilla's reach. Below the banana is a ladder. If a gorilla goes for the banana, all five are sprayed with water by the scientists outside the cage, which teaches them to associate the banana with pain or discomfort. As soon as they retreat, the water stops spraying.

The next time a gorilla goes for the banana, the others stop him/her because they don't want to collectively be punished.

End stage one. For stage two, replace a gorilla with a new one. The new gorilla, having not been conditioned, goes for the banana. The original four attack the new gorilla and although this gorilla has no idea why, he/she learns not to attempt to get the banana. Now continue until all the gorillas have been replaced and eventually there are five new gorillas, none of whom experienced the original water spraying punishment. Nobody goes for the banana, nobody gets punished. Why? That's just the way things are done here.

The point is that organizational change is hard. People fall into complex social patterns without fully understanding why. Teams that experience success as the norm expect that and so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Meanwhile teams that don't know how to win end up with bad habits they need to unlearn. IMO this is what Sutter talks about when he talks about lack of playoff experience and when he says the team needs to learn how to win.

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Old 05-25-2022, 11:08 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by Mathgod View Post
I would be interested in seeing a list of total number of playoff series won in the past 30 postseasons by each franchise. I have a feeling the list isn't as even as your theory would suggest it should be. I mean, Vegas has won more series in their 5 years of existence than the Flames have in the past 32.
If I am interpreting the info from this site (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...playoff_series) correctly I think this is what you are looking for, the number of series won since 1992 (30 years ago) by each team.

2 - Blue Jackets
3 - Coyotes
3 - Jets
4 - Panthers
4 - Wild
6 - Flames
7 - Knights
7 - Predators
9 - Islanders
9 - Oilers
11 - Maple Leafs
11 - Senators
12 - Sabres
14 - Canucks
14 - Capitals
14 - Hurricanes
14 - Kings
15 - Blues
16 - Ducks
17 - Canadiens
19 - Bruins
19 - Flyers
20 - Rangers
20 - Sharks
20 - Stars
23 - Avalanche
23 - Devils
24 - Blackhawks
24 - Lightning
32 - Penguins
33 - Red Wings
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Old 05-25-2022, 11:35 PM   #647
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If you go 33 years the Flames have 10
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Old 05-25-2022, 11:59 PM   #648
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Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers View Post
Oh I totally can. Itís accurate.

You can just choose whatever sports team you like. Itís the beauty of it. You arenít born into it, stuck with one, you can pick and choose. This isnít directed at you necessarily, but the people who continually drive themselves batty and seemingly force themselves to cheer for this team. Leave, go look up ďsunk cost fallacyĒ and cheer for whoever you want.
Whatís the fun in that. The misery it what makes the success so sweet.
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Old 05-26-2022, 12:04 AM   #649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames0910 View Post
Have you heard of the gorilla experiment? It's a story that's used to explain how difficult change is for established organizations.

It goes something like this...

Put five gorillas in the cage. In the centre of the cage is a banana, hanging just out of the gorilla's reach. Below the banana is a ladder. If a gorilla goes for the banana, all five are sprayed with water by the scientists outside the cage, which teaches them to associate the banana with pain or discomfort. As soon as they retreat, the water stops spraying.

The next time a gorilla goes for the banana, the others stop him/her because they don't want to collectively be punished.

End stage one. For stage two, replace a gorilla with a new one. The new gorilla, having not been conditioned, goes for the banana. The original four attack the new gorilla and although this gorilla has no idea why, he/she learns not to attempt to get the banana. Now continue until all the gorillas have been replaced and eventually there are five new gorillas, none of whom experienced the original water spraying punishment. Nobody goes for the banana, nobody gets punished. Why? That's just the way things are done here.

The point is that organizational change is hard. People fall into complex social patterns without fully understanding why. Teams that experience success as the norm expect that and so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Meanwhile teams that don't know how to win end up with bad habits they need to unlearn. IMO this is what Sutter talks about when he talks about lack of playoff experience and when he says the team needs to learn how to win.
I had never heard of that experiment but figured out my own theory similar to that. Is there a study that shows the opposite effect?
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Old 05-26-2022, 12:35 AM   #650
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Originally Posted by WhiteTiger View Post
If I am interpreting the info from this site (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...playoff_series) correctly I think this is what you are looking for, the number of series won since 1992 (30 years ago) by each team.

2 - Blue Jackets
3 - Coyotes
3 - Jets
4 - Panthers
4 - Wild
6 - Flames
7 - Knights
7 - Predators
9 - Islanders
9 - Oilers
11 - Maple Leafs
11 - Senators
12 - Sabres
14 - Canucks
14 - Capitals
14 - Hurricanes
14 - Kings
15 - Blues
16 - Ducks
17 - Canadiens
19 - Bruins
19 - Flyers
20 - Rangers
20 - Sharks
20 - Stars
23 - Avalanche
23 - Devils
24 - Blackhawks
24 - Lightning
32 - Penguins
33 - Red Wings
Pretty much all of those teams surrounding the Flames on either side are teams I think of as among the hopeless or hapless of the NHL. Not the Knights, but they don't count. That's a saddening list to look at.
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Old 05-26-2022, 12:36 AM   #651
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Originally Posted by Buff View Post
I had never heard of that experiment but figured out my own theory similar to that. Is there a study that shows the opposite effect?
TBH Iím not even sure if it was a real experiment or just a pseudoscience business story lol but there is obviously enough of a kernel of truth to it that it persists.
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Old 05-26-2022, 01:31 AM   #652
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AFI needs to be more punk and less emo

Come on, my picture is a Propagandhi album cover. Don't judge me based on the band name I ripped off. The minute I chose this name they started making music I don't like!

I'm not sad, I'm annoyed! I realized today, that part of why I'm more irritated than normal is that most people I talk to about hockey or know are Oiler fans. My social media which is very small, is flooded with Oiler posts. Makes this series worse.


As I said in a previous thread somewhere, deep down I'm always optimistic about this team, and if there's a Flames team that can take this to 7, it's this team, but I've seen decades of bad performances, aside from a run or two and my brain is conditioned to expect a spectacular failure.

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Old 05-26-2022, 01:52 AM   #653
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Originally Posted by WhiteTiger View Post
If I am interpreting the info from this site (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...playoff_series) correctly I think this is what you are looking for, the number of series won since 1992 (30 years ago) by each team.

2 - Blue Jackets
3 - Coyotes
3 - Jets
4 - Panthers
4 - Wild
6 - Flames
7 - Knights
7 - Predators
9 - Islanders
9 - Oilers
11 - Maple Leafs
11 - Senators
12 - Sabres
14 - Canucks
14 - Capitals
14 - Hurricanes
14 - Kings
15 - Blues
16 - Ducks
17 - Canadiens
19 - Bruins
19 - Flyers
20 - Rangers
20 - Sharks
20 - Stars
23 - Avalanche
23 - Devils
24 - Blackhawks
24 - Lightning
32 - Penguins
33 - Red Wings
this is horrifying and explains all of the pessimism of the old guard.
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Old 05-26-2022, 02:43 AM   #654
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this is horrifying and explains all of the pessimism of the old guard.
Yep.

Iíve been a fan since Ď88 when I was 8 years old. Over the last 30 years weíve averaged one series win every 5 years. See you in 2027.
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Old 05-26-2022, 03:05 AM   #655
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this is horrifying and explains all of the pessimism of the old guard.
Half of those wins were the 2004 series.

One was 2 years ago.

One was last week...
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Old 05-26-2022, 05:07 AM   #656
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Yep.

Iíve been a fan since Ď88 when I was 8 years old. Over the last 30 years weíve averaged one series win every 5 years. See you in 2027.
If you just look at 1st round wins its far worse, 2004 really skews our number which is pretty sad.

But now that we're big underdogs I'm definitely more comfortable and have a little more confidence in the team to at least put up a fight, which is really all I want.
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Old 05-26-2022, 05:29 AM   #657
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If you just look at 1st round wins its far worse, 2004 really skews our number which is pretty sad.

But now that we're big underdogs I'm definitely more comfortable and have a little more confidence in the team to at least put up a fight, which is really all I want.
I suppose, if we are looking for bright sides...

In the 90's, we had no series wins.
In the 00's, we had 3 (2004 run)
In the 10's, we had one (2015)
In the 20's, we've already had 2 (2020/2022)

So...we're trending, e'er so slowly, the right way? Things are looking solid for the 40's... ;D
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Old 05-26-2022, 08:57 AM   #658
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I believe game 5 goes to OT
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Old 05-26-2022, 09:07 AM   #659
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I suppose, if we are looking for bright sides...

In the 90's, we had no series wins.
In the 00's, we had 3 (2004 run)
In the 10's, we had one (2015)
In the 20's, we've already had 2 (2020/2022)

So...we're trending, e'er so slowly, the right way? Things are looking solid for the 40's... ;D

2020 was a play in. They lost in the actual first round
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Old 05-26-2022, 09:12 AM   #660
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Pretty much all of those teams surrounding the Flames on either side are teams I think of as among the hopeless or hapless of the NHL. Not the Knights, but they don't count. That's a saddening list to look at.
Not just hopeless & hapless, none of them were even in the league in 92.
Panthers started in 93 I believe so they're the closest (and worse) than the Flames over 30 years.
The others all get the excuse of not existing a good chunk of that term.
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