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View Poll Results: What role do humans play in contributing to climate change?
Humans are the primary contributor to climate change 392 62.92%
Humans contribute to climate change, but not the main cause 163 26.16%
Not sure 37 5.94%
Climate change is a hoax 31 4.98%
Voters: 623. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-17-2019, 10:37 PM   #1681
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I finally got around to googling my question about wireless charging built right into roadways...the answer is yes, and it's called dyanamic EV charging (DEVC). At least one small but real-world implementation coming in the UK by next year. Obviously a long, long way for the technology to go, but it's already further along than I would have thought.

https://inews.co.uk/news/science/ele...oventry-498719

I'm still skeptical of Autonomous Vehicles potential for high-speed travel in variable conditions on any roadway shared with human drivers. DEVC roads might be the way to kill multiple birds at once
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:44 PM   #1682
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I'm still skeptical of Autonomous Vehicles potential for high-speed travel in variable conditions on any roadway shared with human drivers.
Indeed, those humans are dangerously unpredictable and potentially could cause accidents.
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Old 10-18-2019, 01:45 AM   #1683
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Why?

Shes not interested in learning anything. Her job is to proselytize.

Oil executives likely arent interested in meeting with her because she doesnt have anything to say to them that they dont already know and theres nothing they can say to her that she is going to care about hearing.
I don't disagree, but the proper way to counter her message is a serious conversation about the good things Alberta oil is doing to cut emissions and produce responsibly.

Instead the "She wants to take our jerbs!" crowd will steal the spotlight and make people laugh and ignore the argument.

Clowns
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Old 10-18-2019, 06:30 AM   #1684
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I think people are under appreciating how much power running a truck stop with say 20 fast chargers would draw from the grid.

Tesla's new V3 supercharger can pump out 250kw each, so in theory 4 cars would consume a whole MW of power, 5MW to charge 20 cars at a time. Add in the electric semis with 900-1,000kw battery packs to achieve a 600km range, they will draw up to 2MW each to achieve the claimed 30 min charge time.

The new Sheppard gas plant produces 860MW of power. The entire city of Calgary is using 1,050MW right now. If you were supercharging 20 cars and 5 semis at a time you're consuming 1.5% of the total load for the city.

I hope my math is right, I am pretty dumb when it comes to electrical.
I have no idea on the math, but they have these things all over Ontario/Quebec/BC already and I haven't heard of this being an issue. I'm far from an expert though so maybe it is an issue that just hasn't reached mainstream news. Calgary has an 8 super charger station at CrossIron Mills according to the map.

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/supercharger
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Old 10-18-2019, 06:33 AM   #1685
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Battery innovations continue to come along and provide innovative ways to look at the problem.

https://thedriven.io/2019/02/18/refi...ue-university/

"A new type of electric car technology that uses a combination of battery and hydrogen power has an energy density so high it could allow a passenger car to travel over 5000km, only stopping to quickly refill the battery fluid."

“The jump that this technology has made in the past two years is a testament to its value in changing the way we power our vehicles,” said Cushman.

“It’s a game-changer for the next generation of electric cars because it does not require a very costly rebuild of the electric grid throughout the US. Instead, one could convert gas stations to pump fresh electrolyte and discard depleted electrolyte and convert oil-changing facilities to anode replacing stations. It is easier and safer to use and is more environmentally friendly than existing battery systems.”

"The potential for reusing the components and fluid is also an attractive benefit – they can be gathered and then recharged at a renewable energy plant such as a solar farm or wind turbine.

“It is the full circle of energy with very little waste,” Cushman said. “IFBattery’s components are safe enough to be stored in a family home, are stable enough to meet major production and distribution requirements and are cost-effective.”

Because SCIENCE.
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Old 10-18-2019, 06:46 AM   #1686
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Nm

Last edited by GGG; 10-18-2019 at 07:55 AM.
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Old 10-18-2019, 07:44 AM   #1687
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Sounds interesting, I'm a little confused about this bit:
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The system so far has been tested on scooters and golf carts, and based on the tech advances being developed the researchers think that 3,000-3,600 miles (about 4,800-5,800km) range could be achieved.
The only reason drivers would need to stop – other than for a coffee, toilet break and presumably to swap drivers! – is to change over the battery fluid every 480km or so, much like refuelling for petrol as opposed to the 45 minutes or so needed at a fast charger for li-ion battery electric cars.
Is the range 5000km or 480km?



They also don't say what the eloctrolyte is. Hopefully not some exotic thing that isn't scalable. The thing with battery innovations is there is a new one every month, and not many of them work out. But I like the idea of being able to re-fuel as opposed to recharge, though each has it's advantages.
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Old 10-18-2019, 08:12 AM   #1688
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Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
Sounds interesting, I'm a little confused about this bit:

Is the range 5000km or 480km?



They also don't say what the eloctrolyte is. Hopefully not some exotic thing that isn't scalable. The thing with battery innovations is there is a new one every month, and not many of them work out. But I like the idea of being able to re-fuel as opposed to recharge, though each has it's advantages.
The fuel range would be 480 kms and the battery anodes would need to be replaced every 5000km, much like an oil change, except i'd actually have to remember to do it.
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Old 10-18-2019, 08:22 AM   #1689
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Oh, I'm sure the car would remind you! That makes more sense though. The comments in the article are hilarious from the EV owners.

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With my PHEV I've gotten used to not visiting a petrol station for months at a time. I wouldn't like having to go back to that.
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No thanks! I don't want another slavery and thievery of my hard earned money. I charge at home with free electricity net-metered from solar PV. If they can offer me a cheap electrolyte recharger at home then why not? But I don't think they would want that, they just want to fleece you out as much as they can. I am free of the bondage of oil and electric utilities!
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The main thing I don't like about this is that it would likely see Big Oil simply replaced by Big Hydrogen. I'd rather power my own EV with solar panels on my house. Or, if that option no longer works, let's at least know that the Hydrogen is being created by 100% renewable electricity. Otherwise it makes little sense...
Big Hydrogen! Panic!

OK, so we get more details, too.

Quote:
From other articles (smithsonianmag.com) it seems that the fluid is a "mixture of water, ethanol, salt and dissolved metals". Running this through the flow battery produces electricity and hydrogen. The hydrogen is then used in a fuel cell for a secondary production of electricity. Its not clear what happens to the carbon (from the ethanol) salt and dissolved metals, but are they perhaps combined into the electrode so there are no tail pipe emissions? - but note that there is no claim of zero tail-pipe emissions!
Their plan is that you discard the electrode about as frequently as you would service an ICE car (is that the 5000km?), and they claim for a similar cost. Can we presume the electrode is then recycled or is it waste? Also there's no narrative on how the ethanol is sourced - is this (please) a renewable energy and carbon capture process? How much will this ethanol cost?
I assume this gets "consumed"? I wonder how much ends up recycled, and how much it burns.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:06 AM   #1690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
Sounds interesting, I'm a little confused about this bit:

Is the range 5000km or 480km?



They also don't say what the eloctrolyte is. Hopefully not some exotic thing that isn't scalable. The thing with battery innovations is there is a new one every month, and not many of them work out. But I like the idea of being able to re-fuel as opposed to recharge, though each has it's advantages.
I was confused by that as well. Waiting for more details to come and clarify through a full research paper, which I have not yet been able to find. What is exciting is another way to skin the cat that really challenges current thinking and perceptions - on many sides of the discussion. Innovation is going to solve the larger problem, and this is just showing that there are many innovative technologies being worked on that will be part of the solution. Again, there is no single silver bullet to a complex problem like we are discussing, it will take a number of solutions working together to solve the big problem.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:11 AM   #1691
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I was confused by that as well. Waiting for more details to come and clarify through a full research paper, which I have not yet been able to find. What is exciting is another way to skin the cat that really challenges current thinking and perceptions - on many sides of the discussion. Innovation is going to solve the larger problem, and this is just showing that there are many innovative technologies being worked on that will be part of the solution. Again, there is no single silver bullet to a complex problem like we are discussing, it will take a number of solutions working together to solve the big problem.
I agree with that, and my point has always been lets not try to force it in ways that don't really help. Eventually solutions will be developed. All the panic is unjustified. Fund tech and inovation, and we will find a way out. I don't think we currently have a way out that doesn't decimate standards of living. There will be lots of small steps.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:13 AM   #1692
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Slightly off-topic but France has big plans for hydrogen as an energy source for vehicles and industry.

https://www.gouvernement.fr/en/hydro...s-technology-0
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:13 AM   #1693
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I don't disagree, but the proper way to counter her message is a serious conversation about the good things Alberta oil is doing to cut emissions and produce responsibly.

Instead the "She wants to take our jerbs!" crowd will steal the spotlight and make people laugh and ignore the argument.

Clowns
Didn’t we already try being nice? Notley did with BC and where did that get us? She had to resort to wine bans and rail cars. Nice doesn’t work.

Fyi Neville Chamberlain tried to be “nice” to Hitler. How well did that go? An extreme case but point made.

You can’t be nice with someone who’s not willing to listen.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:13 AM   #1694
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Slightly off-topic but France has big plans for hydrogen as an energy source for vehicles and industry.

https://www.gouvernement.fr/en/hydro...s-technology-0
Haha France. Not exactly a world leader in technological innovation.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:14 AM   #1695
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With climate change on the agenda, I thought this was a good conversation Ryan Jespersen of 630 CHED had yesterday with Dr. Katharine Hayhoe, a leading climate scientist and Canadian based in Texas and one Time 100's most influential people on climate change in 2014.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1184547526159958017
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:22 AM   #1696
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Oh, I'm sure the car would remind you! That makes more sense though. The comments in the article are hilarious from the EV owners.

Big Hydrogen! Panic!

OK, so we get more details, too.

I assume this gets "consumed"? I wonder how much ends up recycled, and how much it burns.

Why then not just go with traditional hydrogen fuel cell technology. Just fill up with hydrogen, albeit you would need some special fueling stations to get it compressed to 10kpsi. The Toyota Mirai has a range of about 600km on a tank of hydrogen. If there was a quick connect for a hydrogen canister, this would be good. Not sure how much hydrogen is required for this or if you could keep a couple of spare tanks in the car to swap in and out like a Sodastream or something.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...?ocid=00000000
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:38 AM   #1697
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I assume the flow battery is a feedstock for generating hydrogen from the ethanol. Then the hydrogen is "burned" as the actual fuel. So ya, all this does is avoids having a high pressure hydrogen tank, which Toyota has kinda solved anyway. I assume the efficiency of the entire process would be lower as well.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:45 AM   #1698
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I have no idea on the math, but they have these things all over Ontario/Quebec/BC already and I haven't heard of this being an issue. I'm far from an expert though so maybe it is an issue that just hasn't reached mainstream news. Calgary has an 8 super charger station at CrossIron Mills according to the map.

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/supercharger
The issue isn't there currently with 1% market share, it's when we pass the inflection point of widespread adoption.
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Old 10-18-2019, 10:39 AM   #1699
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Didn’t we already try being nice? Notley did with BC and where did that get us? She had to resort to wine bans and rail cars. Nice doesn’t work.

Fyi Neville Chamberlain tried to be “nice” to Hitler. How well did that go? An extreme case but point made.

You can’t be nice with someone who’s not willing to listen.
Did you just Godwin a 16 year-old girl? Jesus Christ, dude.
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Old 10-18-2019, 10:52 AM   #1700
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^^^Good try haha. Is that your best argument? If she’s taking on Adult issues she needs to expect adult responses.

Last edited by stampsx2; 10-18-2019 at 10:55 AM.
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