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Old 11-10-2019, 01:00 PM   #3041
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Are there any examples of regions separating for purely economic/political reasons as opposed to religious or ethnic grounds? What would uniquely define Alberta as a nation that would make our hearts swell as George sings our national anthem? “We have our own money and no one tells us what to do” isn’t an inspirational raison d’être to me.
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Old 11-10-2019, 01:04 PM   #3042
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I wonder how much to break this contract...?

https://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?x...4FC9E45F4B9CA3
I don't know. is that what they're proposing? perhaps they'll use the 11 years to study and set up a new force once the contract runs out?
Let's hope the government doesn't take us down the NDP route of cancelling contracts and then suing ourselves for it path.
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Old 11-10-2019, 01:06 PM   #3043
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I think people in Canada are somewhat transient, so what is an APP going to mean for people who retire to another province or abroad?
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Old 11-10-2019, 01:12 PM   #3044
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I think people in Canada are somewhat transient, so what is an APP going to mean for people who retire to another province or abroad?
On an individual basis it will be no different than CPP. On the macro level we will be more closely aligned with how our retirement fund is managed simply by having a vote that actually counts.
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Old 11-10-2019, 01:13 PM   #3045
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No but you just never respond when anyone brings up counterpoints. If you do it's just a confused tangent to the original point.
Still stuck on talking about me eh?

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APP is a much better alternative to our current CPP unless you like your retirement investments going to UN sustainable developments...cheap houses in India. Or if you think a better return could be had in more traditional markets where other funds tend to play.

Cops, who cares. Taxes, pluses and minuses. But one thing that comes with all of this is a new and likely improved relationship with Ottawa. If nothing else a fix of the inequities of equalization would be a terrific win. If nothing else a tiny shred of what Quebec has.
Speaking of confused tangents, what does any of this have to do with GGG’s point about a “credible” threat of separation being a benefit and my point that the UCP has no mandate to pursue separation?

Even though your “counterpoints” have nothing to do with what was being discussed I’ll give you my view on at least one of them. Your assumption that Alberta taking money away from the rest of the country is likely to result in an improved relationship with Ottawa is probably wishful thinking.
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Old 11-10-2019, 01:44 PM   #3046
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The threat of separation only works if it’s credible. Putting the preconditions in place doesn’t make separation a good or credible idea. Quebec gets what it wants because it’s threat IS a credible stick and their political fluidity is a credible carrot. What is Alberta’s bargaining position?
I agree the lack of political fluidity of Albertans is a problem. If you could get Edmonton’s and Calgary’s seats into true swing status then the Conservative Party would be forces to drop its so-con views to be more viable outside of the west and the liberals would be forced to pay more attention to the west as a
Result of conservative improvements in Ontario and Quebec.

I think moving jobs away from Ontario and Quebec is the stick portion.
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Old 11-10-2019, 01:57 PM   #3047
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I agree the lack of political fluidity of Albertans is a problem. If you could get Edmonton’s and Calgary’s seats into true swing status then the Conservative Party would be forces to drop its so-con views to be more viable outside of the west and the liberals would be forced to pay more attention to the west as a
But to do that, you need the other parties to offer carrots to Alberta voters. Just looking at the platform position on Pipelines is enough to effectively kill the Green and NDP in Alberta, and the last 4 years have not helped the Liberals in any way.

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Old 11-10-2019, 02:22 PM   #3048
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I think people in Canada are somewhat transient, so what is an APP going to mean for people who retire to another province or abroad?
Why would it be any different than the arrangement between CPP/QPP?
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Old 11-10-2019, 04:03 PM   #3049
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But to do that, you need the other parties to offer carrots to Alberta voters. Just looking at the platform position on Pipelines is enough to effectively kill the Green and NDP in Alberta, and the last 4 years have not helped the Liberals in any way.

This is true about the past election and the other previous election with the Sr Trudeau running. However in between there you had some good options that weren't anti-west or anti-pipeline. The Chretien / Martin liberals never really won against the reform and Layton's NDP had solid platforms for cities.

So after 30 years of Alberta refusing to vote anyone but Conservative (i realize that 3 or 4 seats are up for grabs each time) you get platforms like you do.

I think real change on this front can only happen if the conservatives abandon the social values platform. Without doing that they have a limited chance of forming government so the liberals can defend the left flank. Until the conservatives are a real threat in Ontario nothing will change.
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Old 11-10-2019, 05:08 PM   #3050
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The social values platform is just so easy to do and implement in order to get non-Albertans on-board with conservatism. Beat the fiscal prudence drum, saving future generations from economic ruin, guarantee individual rights and equal treatment and protection for all peoples of color, age, background and sexual orientation, get a young diplomatic pragmatist who isn't a milk drinking weirdo and secretly loathes homosexuality as the party leader, and BOOM - easy peasy Prime Minister-teasy.

Instead the conservatives make it unnecessarily hard on themselves at the federal level. And at the provincial level they are making us look like a bunch of angry backwater hillbillies with an ulterior agenda.

The conservative movement in this country is a glutton for punishment.
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Old 11-10-2019, 07:09 PM   #3051
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I think people in Canada are somewhat transient, so what is an APP going to mean for people who retire to another province or abroad?
They aren't. Less transient than ever.
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Old 11-10-2019, 07:34 PM   #3052
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The social values platform is just so easy to do and implement in order to get non-Albertans on-board with conservatism. Beat the fiscal prudence drum, saving future generations from economic ruin, guarantee individual rights and equal treatment and protection for all peoples of color, age, background and sexual orientation, get a young diplomatic pragmatist who isn't a milk drinking weirdo and secretly loathes homosexuality as the party leader, and BOOM - easy peasy Prime Minister-teasy.

Instead the conservatives make it unnecessarily hard on themselves at the federal level. And at the provincial level they are making us look like a bunch of angry backwater hillbillies with an ulterior agenda.

The conservative movement in this country is a glutton for punishment.
It’s as if anyone with money doesn’t give 2 ####s about Canada.
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:13 AM   #3053
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It’s as if anyone with money doesn’t give 2 ####s about Canada.
CloseButNoPotato.jpeg

I'm trying hard to understand if they don't give 2 ####s about us why we keep bending over to offer them welfare.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:24 AM   #3054
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Anyone who is pretending that Alberta doesn't get a raw deal within Confederation is just playing Devil's Advocate. Just because you take that position doesn't mean you are a separatist.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:57 PM   #3055
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Well this doesn’t look good.

UCP taking ‘corrective action’ after comments during Kenney Facebook Live blocked by staff

https://globalnews.ca/news/6154970/u...ments-deleted/

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Some Albertans who tuned in to a livestream on Premier Jason Kenney’s Facebook page over the weekend say they had their comments muted or were blocked from the page, leading to the UCP to admit Monday that for at least one case, “[comments] should not have been moderated.”
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“Tons of people were blocked tonight [Saturday] during the livestream just for sharing an opinion,” Allison Dakin said in a message to Global News.

The Spruce Grove resident wasn’t alone. Global News spoke to a handful of other residents who experienced the same problem, including Bryan Worobec from Vegreville.

In a screenshot, taken before his comment was removed, he had written: “Albertans value public education, health care and social services — you and your party do not.”
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When asked if Dakin’s comments were the only ones inappropriately moderated, the UCP did not respond.
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The UCP did not specify how many comments had been moderated by staff during the feed.
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:48 AM   #3056
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A proposed United Conservative Party policy resolution in support of a U.S.-style education voucher system is a sign of what is to come in upcoming school-choice legislation, Alberta's NDP opposition said Tuesday.
The Lacombe-Ponoka UCP constituency association is calling for the creation of a voucher system that would provide "equal per-student funding," regardless of whether a child attends a public, separate, charter or private school, or is taught at home.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...357160?cmp=rss

Well this sounds like a really bad policy.


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The document says Alberta parents must be empowered to take student funding to institutions that can provide the education students need.
"The public school system is not currently able to provide this knowledge and students are entering adulthood unemployable and increasingly radicalized by extremist ideologies."

I'd really, really, really like to know what they mean by this.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:04 AM   #3057
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So if the plan isn’t to separate why is creating a “credible” threat of separation a benefit?
When your threat is credible, it provides you leverage.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:11 AM   #3058
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...357160?cmp=rss

Well this sounds like a really bad policy.





I'd really, really, really like to know what they mean by this.
Probably Post Modernism and Neo-Marxism. I hardly think the K-12 system is rife with either of those things, but here we are.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:11 AM   #3059
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a credible empty threat?
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Old 11-13-2019, 10:08 AM   #3060
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...357160?cmp=rss

Well this sounds like a really bad policy.





I'd really, really, really like to know what they mean by this.
Best case scenario, a franchise of Tommy Douglas Schools For Socially Aware Children pop up in major cities and get the same funding as We'll Beat The Gay Out Of You Christian Prep.
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