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Old 10-26-2019, 03:09 PM   #2041
Ferarri
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I think everyone realized that it was time to reduce spending, but the way Kenny did it was just cruel. The fact that corporations got tax breaks, whereas students see an increase in tuition is unfair. Always seems that the vulnerable pays for the rich to get richer. This is not a government for the people (unless your wealthy) yet conservatives chose to accept this and label the budget as a win for Alberta.

I’m in an industry that just saw firsthand what cuts did to people and we chose to celebrate based on this illusion that Alberta will be stronger and return to greatness. I guess for some people the single mom making $50k a year out of a job is a small price to pay for Shell and Huskey to get corporate tax breaks.

Bravo Alberta...if this is what Alberta prosperity looks like (punishing the poor and most vulnerable) then I seriously question why I would want to live here and build a family.
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Old 10-26-2019, 03:15 PM   #2042
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So why did you vote for the UCP then? What weíre you expecting?
It was a coin flip in the booth to be honest. Candidate in my riding was very engaged (it was a close race) and had been around a couple times. Expectations? Some common sense fiscal responsibility. Something different that the previous Conservative governments.

What were you expecting from this budget? Why are you seemingly happy with it? There is no way even the most hardened of conservative voter can think this budget is a good thing.

Cutting spending, reducing services is fine, when needed and in the right places. This budget addresses none of that however. We pay more, get less, and no doubt the blame will be passes on to others. When my property rates go up in a year it'll be interesting to see how it's blamed on $pendshi.
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Old 10-26-2019, 03:46 PM   #2043
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Let's not forget cuts all non Christian education funding.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...ity-of-alberta

Also serious question for the lawyers on here- Is having the new justice minister weighing in on cases like this a good thing?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...rial-1.5336917
Bozos are gonna bozo. And Twitter is their candy store. Good stuff
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Old 10-26-2019, 03:52 PM   #2044
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Albertans getting what they wanted, good and hard.

Excited for the property tax thread bump.

I'm old enough to remember when Klein burdened cities by cutting necessary infrastructure funding, placing the burden on the backs of Calgarians.

What is old is truly new again.

Very astute political move, cutting off at the knees any political Challenger earning their stripes on the municipal stage. Excited to read and hear ad nauseum about 'Spendshi' from kenney-adjacent acolytes, eager to cast a shadow for their own destructive policies on a potential civic challenger.

I'm probably most happy for the captured industry of political hack 'pr' and 'consultancy' and 'think tanks' lining up at the trough like the men's room of a Calgary Canons 7th inning stretch.

That $30 million dollar unaccountable giveaway is sure to spice up the opinion columns at the sun and national post. It's truly exceptional what a 30 MILLION dollar giveaway of public money to a small cadre of opinion makers will be able to do to the public discourse.

All those agencies filled with repugnant sociopaths that couldn't attract dime-one to their organizations normally are about to go on a rebel ad-buy spending spree. I can already hear many of them submitting their 'non-profit' paper work now.

Fun times ahead for the less than 30% of Albertans who aren't completely brainwashed or otherwise intimidated to blindly follow a blue dodge ram off a cliff.
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:15 PM   #2045
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Can we stop pretending that these corporate tax cuts are designed to line the pockets of the executives so that they can get this years new S class? That’s a tired argument. In reality they’re in place to ensure these corporations are viable so they can continue to employ thousands of citizens. Many of whom make far less than the much maligned corporate fat cats. Not to mention the main function of any company is to maximize its value to shareholders, which far outnumber its employees, many of whom are public unions and pension plans looking for extra revenue streams. But let’s ignore those facts and shed a tear for the precious public servants

I must have missed the part in economics class where the only responsible way to run the economy is to suckle the sweet, sweet teat of the government.
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:17 PM   #2046
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The economy understander has logged on.
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Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:26 PM   #2047
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Far from it. I just think there’s two sides to every coin. And I understand why certain things are the way they are in the new budget. It sucks right now, but it may work, it may not.
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:37 PM   #2048
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I really hate to say it but I'd be in favour of a PST. Even just 1%
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:37 PM   #2049
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Far from it. I just think thereís two sides to every coin. And I understand why certain things are the way they are in the new budget. It sucks right now, but it may work, it may not.
Everyone understands why certain things are the way they are in the budget. What doesnít make sense is how the pieces come together. The biggest issue is not the CIT. This is not just about public servants or ďsuckling the teet of the government.Ē This is about how and why a government that claims to be fiscally conservative is taking more taxes from the people and deficit spending into the tens of billions.

Iím just struggling to see some UCP supporters trot around saying things like ďwhat did you expect?Ē Can a single conservative on this board say, straight up, that they support higher taxes and deficit spending? Because it sounded a LOT like those were two huge issues in booting the NDP, and neither are addressed. The taxes got worse, the deficits continue.

Whatís the other side of the coin? We went from high taxes and high deficits to high taxes and high deficits. Why are people pretending this is a responsible budget that helps them?
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:47 PM   #2050
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Finally had time to read through the budget...

Considering the facts that we have a ballooning deficit, the highest cost-per-service public sector in Canada, and a struggling economy - which is an almost perfect storm - the broad strokes of the budget addressed the issues reasonably well.
  • Spending had to be curtailed.
  • Instead of massive public sector layoffs (which the anemic economy wouldn't be in a position to handle) they will reduce public spending on many fronts via attrition, which is good to see.
  • CIT will be cut (incrementally) in order to provide stimulus to the economy.

In all likelihood, the 'war room' will be a complete waste of money, but it will be interesting to see if they can actually make it a useful exercise. I mean, getting better messaging out is sorely needed, but I don't hold out much hope for it actually happening.

All in all, I think Alberta will be in better shape going forward than it is now.
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:47 PM   #2051
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I really hate to say it but I'd be in favour of a PST. Even just 1%
Iím not in favor of a PST but definitely think itís time to consider an HST/GST.
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:49 PM   #2052
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I really hate to say it but I'd be in favour of a PST. Even just 1%
There is a cost to administer though, so 1% would be pointless and inefficient. As Yoda said: "do, or do not, there is no try"
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:51 PM   #2053
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Everyone understands why certain things are the way they are in the budget. What doesnít make sense is how the pieces come together. The biggest issue is not the CIT. This is not just about public servants or ďsuckling the teet of the government.Ē This is about how and why a government that claims to be fiscally conservative is taking more taxes from the people and deficit spending into the tens of billions.

Iím just struggling to see some UCP supporters trot around saying things like ďwhat did you expect?Ē Can a single conservative on this board say, straight up, that they support higher taxes and deficit spending? Because it sounded a LOT like those were two huge issues in booting the NDP, and neither are addressed. The taxes got worse, the deficits continue.

Whatís the other side of the coin? We went from high taxes and high deficits to high taxes and high deficits. Why are people pretending this is a responsible budget that helps them?
Did you expect them to eliminate a ballooning deficit in one budget?

Spending cuts were required, as was stimulus in order to improve the economy so that the deficit can be eliminated going forward.
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Old 10-26-2019, 05:13 PM   #2054
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Originally Posted by aaronck View Post
Let's not forget cuts all non Christian education funding.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...ity-of-alberta

Also serious question for the lawyers on here- Is having the new justice minister weighing in on cases like this a good thing?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...rial-1.5336917
The fact that he's gutting public education while leaving religious education untouched is actually one of the things that make me the most mad.

Even K-12 funding is frozen for public schools, but private schools (ie. religious or otherwise) get an extra 400 million dollars.

https://twitter.com/terry_truchan/st...415752704?s=15
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Old 10-26-2019, 05:30 PM   #2055
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Here's my take on this.
I am running a fairly insignificant drywall company in the GEA.
One of my primary contacts (a land/building owner) has signed three leases (for full build out of empty bays in his building) in the last five days. These are all Alberta based businesses that now feel confident enough to expand operations, given the incentive (Tax cuts to Corporations) to do so.

I have signed contracts to build out these units which total almost $1M.
These aren't being leased by companies working in O&G, they're a diverse group of service Companies, with differing target markets. The owner of the building indicated to me that they were all "on the verge" but waiting on the UCP before they dropped pen to paper.



The people pontificating on this thread about how the Corporate Tax move is "bad" ought to have a close look here...and perhaps re-evaluate?
I have secured six months of solid employment for about 20 people...and you're damn straight that I'll be taking my Corporate Tax break to the bank (and re-investing to grow my own business) as well.


I'm in my office at the moment.

If I look out the window?
I see my neighbor's driveway...


I have no great ambition to sit 700 feet above the masses, looking down with disdain.
I am "the masses". I pulled skim coats in a stairwell this afternoon.


Sand, scrape, and sweep on Monday and it's on to the next one...


~20 man hours= $1,500.00. The money is there if you know how to make it.


Also note? I made about $2000.00 off my subs in the last four days.


Don't want this to come across in the wrong manner but I'm really not that pissed off with the UCP plan.
In my line of work?
I'm going to do OK and if my (St. effing Albert) taxes go up? Well I'll just pay them...
Like all us good sheeple do.
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Old 10-26-2019, 05:49 PM   #2056
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Can we stop pretending that these corporate tax cuts are designed to line the pockets of the executives so that they can get this years new S class? Thatís a tired argument. In reality theyíre in place to ensure these corporations are viable so they can continue to employ thousands of citizens.
A large number of these corporations also operate in other jurisdictions with much higher tax rates, in your mind are they only managing to keep afloat because of Albertaís generosity?

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Many of whom make far less than the much maligned corporate fat cats. Not to mention the main function of any company is to maximize its value to shareholders, which far outnumber its employees, many of whom are public unions and pension plans looking for extra revenue streams. But letís ignore those facts and shed a tear for the precious public servants
Speaking of tired arguments. Youíre suggesting we should give guaranteed breaks to corporations today in exchange for potential returns that you canít in any way guarantee or even realistically quantify how big of a difference the break will make in the return.

Using the benefit to public sector union members as an argument for why itís important to help corporations at the expense of public sector employment was a nice touch.

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I must have missed the part in economics class where the only responsible way to run the economy is to suckle the sweet, sweet teat of the government.
You must have also missed the part in business class where the goal isnít to maximize job creation or take care of everyone else, itís simply to be as profitable as possible.
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Old 10-26-2019, 06:05 PM   #2057
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Did you expect them to eliminate a ballooning deficit in one budget?

Spending cuts were required, as was stimulus in order to improve the economy so that the deficit can be eliminated going forward.
Iím not sure there is much evidence that lowering corporate tax rates is good stimulous. Unless you are getting lower rates than other jurisdictions it doesnít really create jobs and if you want to just inject cash into an economy just give it people money who will spend it on businesses rather than business having more profit is generally more effective.

Going to 11% and getting back to the lowest in Canada probably adds value and is good policy. Beyond that and it appears you are conducting a Kansas experiment.
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Old 10-26-2019, 06:09 PM   #2058
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Making it easier to do business is a good thing for Alberta, and really unless your doing business in Quebec where they allow you to break the law, lower taxes are one of the most significant ways to do that.

It’s good to have adults back in charge of finance here in Alberta.
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Old 10-26-2019, 06:28 PM   #2059
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You must have also missed the part in business class where the goal isnít to maximize job creation or take care of everyone else, itís simply to be as profitable as possible.
I actually pretty clearly stated that in my post. Maximize the value to its shareholders. Just different wording. My point is that these shareholders arenít just the elite, but many other entities.

And the reason why I mentioned the Unions and Pension plans specifically are because itís the truth. Those entities have vast resources that they invest to try and increase revenue streams. Off the top of my head I remember when Statoil bought North American Oil Sands for 2.2 billion. Increasing share value from $12-20(IIRC?). The largest shareholder? Ontario Teachers pension plan who pocketed hundreds of millions. So letís just completely ignore that the public sector can in fact benefit from the private sector succeeding...
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Old 10-26-2019, 06:47 PM   #2060
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Did you expect them to eliminate a ballooning deficit in one budget?

Spending cuts were required, as was stimulus in order to improve the economy so that the deficit can be eliminated going forward.
Of course spending cuts were required, as was a modest stimulus. Iím fine with both.

What Iím not fine with is making everything more expensive for people and making ideological cuts while adding $30b to the debt.

For all the rambling on about the NDP spending like drunken sailors, the idiocy about ďadultsĒ being in charge now, itís almost funny to be staring right at a UCP government with a spending problem that appears to be nearly just as bad as what the NDP planned while making life harder for people.

Iím just a bit shocked that the handwringing over taxes, over the debt, it was partisan and fake. A lot of those same people are now happy as clams with both because itís the UCP handing them the bill, not the NDP.

Itís funny to watch.
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