Microsoft, Innovating Again

[FanIn80]

According to a presentation from Microsoft's retail consultant leaked last week, concepts for the stores include an "Answer Bar" or "Guru Bar" similar to Apple's Genius Bar, large digital media walls presenting dynamic information and images, and themed "stage areas" for various Microsoft technologies utilizing "Surface" multi-touch tables for interactive experiences.

Microsoft has reportedly hired former Apple real estate chief George Blankenship as a consultant to assist the company with securing locations for its new retail stores.

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/29/...nd-california/
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10296393-56.html
http://gizmodo.com/5322328/leak-insi...s-bar/gallery/

In spite of the blatant ripping-off going on, I'm actually interested in seeing this. It will probably be eons before they come to Calgary though.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/29/...nd-california/
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10296393-56.html
http://gizmodo.com/5322328/leak-insi...s-bar/gallery/

In spite of the blatant ripping-off going on, I'm actually interested in seeing this. It will probably be eons before they come to Calgary though.

I like ripoffing(is that a word). Rip off to me just means that eventually there will be cheaper version of every cool technology which is good. I get choices. It does affect the original company either. They are credited with being so good others have to copy. Then instead of wasting their time working on catching up and duplicating they can continue to truly innovate and stay ahead. With many of their products Microsoft just seems to be copying/ripping off the likes of Apple and Mozilla etc. Not innovative but if you can't beat them then join them.

[Yeah_Baby]

In this corner representing Apple FanIn80, and in this corner representing Microsoft JohnnyFlame!

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

In this corner representing Apple FanIn80, and in this corner representing Microsoft JohnnyFlame!

And neither one has ANY high ground to stand on. Just ask the developers of Konfabulator or Watson about Apple.

[The Ditch]

At least Microsoft is putting their own money and time into this and not just pointing their customers to the Genius Bar and saying help my customers.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

At least Microsoft is putting their own money and time into this and not just pointing their customers to the Genius Bar and saying help my customers.

Not sure what you mean by that. Where do you think the money comes from for Apple's genius bars? All of those people are hired, trained, and employed by Apple.

[The Ditch]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Not sure what you mean by that. Where do you think the money comes from for Apple's genius bars? All of those people are hired, trained, and employed by Apple.

Sorry, comes from the other Apple thread where Palm is tricking iTunes to think the Pre is an iPod so Palm doesn't have to write their own software!

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

In this corner representing Apple FanIn80, and in this corner representing Microsoft JohnnyFlame!

Ha! I don't even need to post anything on the M$ side of things here. Their own leaked internal memo says it all for me.

At any rate, I'm looking forward to it. More tech stores for me is like more nudie-bars for Al Bundy.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

Sorry, comes from the other Apple thread where Palm is tricking iTunes to think the Pre is an iPod so Palm doesn't have to write their own software!

Ah, okay I wasn't following the other thread so I missed that reference; makes sense now.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

In this corner representing Apple FanIn80, and in this corner representing Microsoft JohnnyFlame!

Microsoft, Palm, Apple. They can all rip each other off for all I care. Don't represent for any of them. As long as we are the net benefactor of the ripoffs.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Microsoft, Palm, Apple. They can all rip each other off for all I care. Don't represent for any of them. As long as we are the net benefactor of the ripoffs.

I shouldn't open this can of worms, but what exactly has Apple done to rip off MS?

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

I shouldn't open this can of worms, but what exactly has Apple done to rip off MS?

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=77341

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/t...c/default.mspx


And if that doesn't qualify for your definition of "rip off" then MS has not "ripped off" Apple either.

Apple gave up the high road long ago (if they ever had it). They are both big companies and they are BOTH doing the same business practises; "borrowing" and "improving". And there is nothing wrong with that until people start believing one is inherently good and can do no wrong.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=77341

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/t...c/default.mspx


And if that doesn't qualify for your definition of "rip off" then MS has not "ripped off" Apple either.

Apple gave up the high road long ago (if they ever had it). They are both big companies and they are BOTH doing the same business practises; "borrowing" and "improving". And there is nothing wrong with that until people start believing one is inherently good and can do no wrong.

Seriously? That's a pretty big stretch.

Following your logic... When Apple made the iPhone, they stole from Blackberry? Motorola? What about the iPod? Stolen from Sony? Was the MacBook stolen from HP?

What about the auto industry? When a company comes out with a new sedan, who would you say they stole it from? Now, if that new sedan looked exactly like a Chrysler 300, then maybe you could make that argument... but if it's all their own design... how is that theft?

Maybe Apple didn't invent the concept of a retail store, but they sure invented what the Apple Retail Store is today. Microsoft isn't just opening a retail store and inventing their own format for it... they are photocopying the Apple Retail Store concept. How you can see that as the same thing is beyond me.

Actually, the more I think about this, the more curious I get. Has there been anything that Microsoft has actually innovated? I mean, except for the Office Paper Clip guy. Whoops, and the Registry.

Edit: Actually, I will give them some props for the whole VB thing.

[Bobblehead]

Rio was the one who had the first digital audio player worth mentioning. That is why they were sued by the RIAA. You already went through the history of the Windowing system in another thread. Smart phones were around before the iPhone.

Apple has liberally borrowed just as much as MS, and has done a great job in polishing their products.

And if I'm a MS proponent, it is only in opposition to the Apple zealots who seem to pain the picture that Apple is the be all and end all. I would just like to see the Apple fan-boys back off and realize that their preferred company is just that - a preference - and there are pros and cons that everyone needs to think about for themselves.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Rio was the one who had the first digital audio player worth mentioning. That is why they were sued by the RIAA. You already went through the history of the Windowing system in another thread. Smart phones were around before the iPhone.

Apple has liberally borrowed just as much as MS, and has done a great job in polishing their products.

And if I'm a MS proponent, it is only in opposition to the Apple zealots who seem to pain the picture that Apple is the be all and end all. I would just like to see the Apple fan-boys back off and realize that their preferred company is just that - a preference - and there are pros and cons that everyone needs to think about for themselves.

Brilliant. The fanboy argument always wins. I have to remember to use that some time.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Brilliant. The fanboy argument always wins. I have to remember to use that some time.

WTF are you talking about?

You rant on an on about how seemingly brilliant their product are, you have a large number of their products, and yet when in another thread people pointed out their own personal issues with Apple products and that hasn't seemed to phase you.

You jump into a thread where someone was asking for help dealing with a virus and you pipe in with the ever so helpful, "So this is what a virus scare is". Even though I know you come from a MS world and know darn well what happens. There was no need for you to troll like that.
You seem to have been in IT a long time and should know that the reason there aren't as many viruses for Macs is their smaller market share.

Looks look for Mac/Apple virus news in the last 24 hours:

A Mac security expert has uncovered a technique that hackers could use to take control of Apple Inc computers and steal data that is scrambled to protect it from identity thieves.

Dai Zovi, a security researcher and co-author of "The Mac Hacker's Handbook," said on Wednesday that once hackers start to put substantial resources into targeting Apple's computers, they will be at least as vulnerable as Windows machines.

"There is no magic fairy dust protecting Macs," he said in an interview.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...56S77Q20090730

iPhone hack:

The researchers said the hack involves sending a series of mostly invisible SMS bursts that effectively hijack an iPhone. From thereon, a hacker could control all the functions on the iPhone, such as e-mailing, dialing contacts — and, most alarmingly, sending more text messages to hijack even more iPhones.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/...hijack-iphone/

So Apple isn't infallible. Apple is an excellent product for a lot of people, but it isn't perfect; there is a strong contingent that seems to feel the need to try and convince anyone who will listen that Apple is perfect or, barring that, that MS sucks and is evil (well, the MS marketing/licensing dept IS evil, but I digress). The Apple boosters (fanboys, if you will) are coming on too strong; the smug is getting kind of thick.

[FanIn80]

So, I just did some research and discovered a few things I didn't know....

History

The Tablet PC and the associated special operating software is an example of Pen computing technology, and thus the development of the Tablet PC has deep historical roots:

Before 1950
- 1888: U.S. Patent granted to Elisha Gray on electrical stylus device for capturing handwriting.[2][3]
- 1915: U.S. Patent on handwriting recognition user interface with a stylus.[4][5]
- 1942: U.S. Patent on touchscreen for handwriting input.[6][7]
- 1945: Vannevar Bush proposes the Memex, a data archiving device including handwriting input, in an essay As We May Think.[8]
1950s
- Tom Dimond demonstrates the Styalator electronic tablet with pen for computer input and software for recognition of handwritten text in real-time.[9]
Early 1960s
- RAND Tablet invented.[10][11] The RAND Tablet is better known than the Styalator, but was invented later.
Late 1960s
- Alan Kay of Xerox PARC proposed a notebook computer, optionally using pen input, called the Dynabook: however the device is never constructed or implemented with pen input.
1982
- Pencept of Waltham, Massachusetts markets a general-purpose computer terminal using a tablet and handwriting recognition instead of a keyboard and mouse.[12]
- Cadre System markets the Inforite point-of-sale terminal using handwriting recognition and a small electronic tablet and pen.[13]
1985:
- Pencept[14] and CIC[15] both offer PC computers for the consumer market using a tablet and handwriting recognition instead of a keyboard and mouse. Operating system is MS-DOS.
1989
- The first commercially available tablet-type portable computer was the GRiDPad[16] from GRiD Systems, released in September. Its operating system was based on MS-DOS.
- Wang Laboratories introduces Freestyle. Freestyle was an application that would do a screen capture from an MS-DOS application, and let the user add voice and handwriting annotations. It was a sophisticated predecessor to later note-taking applications for systems like the Tablet PC.[17] The operating system was MS-DOS
1991
- The Momenta Pentop was released.[18]
- GO Corporation announced a dedicated operating system, called PenPoint OS, featuring control of the operating system desktop via handwritten gesture shapes.[19][20]
- NCR released model 3125 pen computer running MS-DOS, Penpoint OS or Pen Windows.[21]
- The Apple Newton entered development; although it ultimately became a PDA, its original concept (which called for a larger screen and greater sketching capabilities) resembled the hardware of a Tablet PC.
1992
- GO Corporation shipped the PenPoint OS for general availability and IBM announced IBM 2125 pen computer (the first IBM model named "ThinkPad") in April.[22]
- Microsoft releases Windows for Pen Computing as a response to the PenPoint OS by GO Corporation.
1993
- The IBM releases the ThinkPad, IBM's first commercialized portable tablet computer product available to the consumer market, as the IBM ThinkPad 750P and 360P[23]
- AT&T introduced the EO Personal Communicator combining PenPoint with wireless communications.
1999
- The "QBE" pen computer created by Aqcess Technologies wins Comdex Best of Show.[24]
2000
- The "QBE Vivo" pen computer created by Aqcess Technologies ties for Comdex Best of Show.
2001
- Bill Gates of Microsoft demonstrates the first public prototype of a Tablet PC (defined by Microsoft as a pen-enabled computer conforming to hardware specifications devised by Microsoft and running a licensed copy of the "Windows XP Tablet PC Edition" operating system)[1] at Comdex.
2003
- Fingerworks[25] develops the touch technology and touch gestures later used in the Apple iPhone.
2006
- Windows Vista released for general availability. Vista included the functionality of the special Tablet PC edition of Windows XP.
2008
- In April 2008, as part of a larger federal court case, the gesture features of the Windows/Tablet PC operating system and hardware were found to infringe on a patent by GO Corp. concerning user interfaces for pen computer operating systems.[26] Microsoft's acquisition of the technology is the subject of a separate lawsuit.[27][28]
- HP releases the second MultiTouch capable tablet: the HP TouchSmart tx2z.[29]
2009
- Asus announced a tablet netbook.
-Always Innovating announced a new tablet netbook with an ARM CPU.
Motion Computing launched the J3400.

Some things that stand out for me:

First, "Bill Gates of Microsoft demonstrates the first public prototype of a Tablet PC (defined by Microsoft as a pen-enabled computer conforming to hardware specifications devised by Microsoft and running a licensed copy of the "Windows XP Tablet PC Edition" operating system) at Comdex." I actually didn't know about this. Your comparison makes more sense now. Actually, it's pretty accurate.

Second, "In April 2008, as part of a larger federal court case, the gesture features of the Windows/Tablet PC operating system and hardware were found to infringe on a patent by GO Corp. concerning user interfaces for pen computer operating systems. Microsoft's acquisition of the technology is the subject of a separate lawsuit." Hahahaha.

Third, and most telling of all, "The Apple Newton entered development; although it ultimately became a PDA, its original concept (which called for a larger screen and greater sketching capabilities) resembled the hardware of a Tablet PC." Interesting how Apple shows up in the history of the tablet PC a full 10 years before Microsoft unveils its tablet in 2001 (you know, that same tablet that was found to infringe on someone else's copyright).

So, looks like I win again. Holy snap, do I ever rule.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

...stuff.

Yawn. I've never once said they're infallible. All I've ever said is they are (on average) more reliable than PCs.

You don't really want to get into a security/virus/malware/bug/crash war do you? I certainly hope not, because it would be a pretty stupid thing to do and I've got other stuff to work on today.

Believe me, there are things I hate about Apple and OS X. They just pale in comparison to the things I hate about Windows and HP/Tosiba/Sony/Acer/Etc.

You can play the fanboy card all you want. Sometimes I go over the top a bit, but it's usually due to me not knowing something that someone else is taking for granted (like that M$ created the recent version of the tablet, for instance - had I known that, I would have agreed with your original statement).

Mind you, now that I think of it... fanboy is probably better than idiot, which is a much closer description of me sometimes.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

So, looks like I win again. Holy snap, do I ever rule.

Like I said - smug.


Edit: And I don't think you can invent anything without someone trying to sue for patent infringement (which is why I believe software patents are bad). Hell, someone just received a patent for podcasting!

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Like I said - smug.

I didn't think I actually needed to use the green font on that...