2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by MrMike

No way, a RW that hasn't learn't how to take face offs is bad at face offs?

Colour me shocked.

Maybe let the guy try if thats the plan but stats don't count when he hasn't been given the chance to learn how to take

draws.

Sorry Gioforpm, if I would have read ahead i would have clearly seen the disclaimer.

Sorry

Lindholm has always taken a decent number of draws, what are you talking about "hasn't learned?" Dude has taken more than 4000 draws at the NHL level.

[Groot]

So how do people feel about Tampa's lineup strategy, is it something the Flames could look to do, and how would it affect the trade proposals and FA signings?

Basically, Tampa has been running with 11 forwards and 7 defense all playoffs. And apparently, even with Stamkos in the lineup they would still run the same setup, and cut a FW to make room Stamkos.

They have 3 lines, and 2 4th line players that play with different players from the top 3 lines at different times of the game. The 7th D takes various shifts with different partners throughout the game, and is a PP/PK specialist.

If Tampa I wouldn't be surorised to see other teams try a similar lineup strategy.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Groot

So how do people feel about Tampa's lineup strategy, is it something the Flames could look to do, and how would it affect the trade proposals and FA signings?

Basically, Tampa has been running with 11 forwards and 7 defense all playoffs. And apparently, even with Stamkos in the lineup they would still run the same setup, and cut a FW to make room Stamkos.

They have 3 lines, and 2 4th line players that play with different players from the top 3 lines at different times of the game. The 7th D takes various shifts with different partners throughout the game, and is a PP/PK specialist.

If Tampa I wouldn't be surorised to see other teams try a similar lineup strategy.

I like it. The 12th forward is the least impactful role on the ice- it’s why guys like Rinaldo can make a career out of being one. They don’t play much on special teams, they don’t create offence; they’re here to give the other three LWs or RWs a breather.

You could rotate guys through that spot, maybe free them up from a matchup here and there.

Conversely, if your extra D is a guy like Kylington, you can put him out exclusively in man advantage situations, instead of someone like Brodie.

I think it allows you to spread the minutes out among the defensemen and it allows you to get your forwards extra touches.

When we have enough players to do something like that, I hope we try it.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Groot

So how do people feel about Tampa's lineup strategy, is it something the Flames could look to do, and how would it affect the trade proposals and FA signings?

Basically, Tampa has been running with 11 forwards and 7 defense all playoffs. And apparently, even with Stamkos in the lineup they would still run the same setup, and cut a FW to make room Stamkos.

They have 3 lines, and 2 4th line players that play with different players from the top 3 lines at different times of the game. The 7th D takes various shifts with different partners throughout the game, and is a PP/PK specialist.

If Tampa I wouldn't be surorised to see other teams try a similar lineup strategy.

I've always been a favorite of running 7D because going down to 10 forwards doesn't hurt you half as much as going down to 5 defensemen.

I'd love to see the Flames run 3 lines, with 2 extra forwards that are PK specialists who see maybe 5 minutes of ES time, either with the #7 defenseman or with other forwards double shifting.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I don’t think that’s a fair point - O’Reilly had 6 in 7 games? Monahan just put up 8 in 10, if all we’re doing is looking at points.

I hate this whole “Lindholm as centre!”, back when they tried him at centre Lindholm I believe even said he prefers wing - but that if he’s going to centre, then give him a run at centre and don’t just try it for a small bit.

Lindholm is an RW, and a pretty solid one (although I think he is a bit overrated from a defensive perspective by some). Lindy also isn’t our most complete player, that distinction belongs to Tkachuk. Another thing I would say is that Lindholm is not a better centre than Monahan is.

Was just responding to the post about O’Reilly being a failure in the playoffs. There was nothing indicating that he had failed at all in the playoffs and as the entire hockey world has seen, he’s a pretty damn good playoff performer.

To me, Lindholm absolutely has all the tools to play center. He can win faceoffs, is responsible with his positioning, is hard on pucks, can make plays up the middle and etc, etc. Even Steinberg and Loubardias have compared his game to that of Patrice Bergeron. Also, his ability to play both wing and center coupled with his proficiency on the penalty kill makes him the most complete forward on the team. Tkachuk doesn’t take faceoffs, play center or kill penalties.


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[ComixZone]

Well, I mean - Lindholm wasn’t good at faceoffs this year and barely played centre and is pretty much a career RW - there has been no established ability to play centre at a high level for Lindholm.

I think Steinberg and Lou are out to lunch on talking about Lindholm in the same breath as Bergeron. Tkachuk is the closest thing we have to that quality of player, and like you said he’s a winger so the defensive responsibilities aren’t quite as high.

(and I really like Lindholm - but he’s an RW, and not in the same tier of player as Bergeron)

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Carolina tried Lindholm at centre a number of times without success. Calgary tried it a couple times and it wasn’t great (but small sample). Faceoffs: Lindholm was below 50% this year (and therefore behind Monahan, Backlund, Ryan and Bennett). The season before he was also below 50% but second (behind Monahan). He was above 50% in Carolina.

The other thing is that if Lindholm is a C, you lose a RHS on RW.

I still don’t understand what people mean when they say he wasn’t successful as a center. He’s been playing the position since he was young, this isn’t something he just picked up last night.

He understands the role and can recognize the nuances of the position. He was the best center the team had when the team was struggling and experimenting with lines like Monahan-Backlund together.

I would agree that the team would lose a RHS on RW, but with the assets that the Treliving has on the block, I trust he could find someone to fill his shoes.


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[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Well, I mean - Lindholm wasn’t good at faceoffs this year and barely played centre and is pretty much a career RW - there has been no established ability to play centre at a high level for Lindholm.

I think Steinberg and Lou are out to lunch on talking about Lindholm in the same breath as Bergeron. Tkachuk is the closest thing we have to that quality of player, and like you said he’s a winger so the defensive responsibilities aren’t quite as high.

(and I really like Lindholm - but he’s an RW, and not in the same tier of player as Bergeron)

Tkachuk? Tkachuk has no ability to play up the middle at all. If anything, Tkachuk is cut from the same cloth as a Brad Marchand. An elite winger who can drive play, play in the hard areas and irritate his opponents.


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[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Was just responding to the post about O’Reilly being a failure in the playoffs. There was nothing indicating that he had failed at all in the playoffs and as the entire hockey world has seen, he’s a pretty damn good playoff performer.

To me, Lindholm absolutely has all the tools to play center. He can win faceoffs, is responsible with his positioning, is hard on pucks, can make plays up the middle and etc, etc. Even Steinberg and Loubardias have compared his game to that of Patrice Bergeron. Also, his ability to play both wing and center coupled with his proficiency on the penalty kill makes him the most complete forward on the team. Tkachuk doesn’t take faceoffs, play center or kill penalties.


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I never said he was a failure, said he was SEEN as a failure. There was a ton of negative things said about RoR before he excelled with the Blues and all those narratives changed.

And I agree Lindholm does have the tools to play C, but you don't just immediately make him your #1C in his first full season as a center. Throwing him in the deep end without swimming lessons just isn't a good idea.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

I've always been a favorite of running 7D because going down to 10 forwards doesn't hurt you half as much as going down to 5 defensemen.

I'd love to see the Flames run 3 lines, with 2 extra forwards that are PK specialists who see maybe 5 minutes of ES time, either with the #7 defenseman or with other forwards double shifting.

Plus in a jam I’d rather have a D playing forward than an F playing defence. Kylington could fill in a forward position in a pinch.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Plus in a jam I’d rather have a D playing forward than an F playing defence. Kylington could fill in a forward position in a pinch.

I do like the idea of trying Lindholm at C, combined with running 11 forwards.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Bennett
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Dube - Backlund - Ryan
Rieder - Jankowski

Giordano - *Brodie Replacement*
Hanifin - Andersson
Valimaki - Mackey
Kylington

Obviously guys can move up/down the line-ups and Jankowski may not return and there will probably be trades, will be UFA signings, but you get the gist.

[Flames_F.T.W]

So... if Tampa wins it all without Stamkos playing a single game, does that make him expendable? They need to shed salary and they clearly don't need him.
I'm too lazy to look up if he has a no trade clause, but what would it take to acquire him? A Stamokos/Monahan 1-2 punch at C would be pretty unreal!

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

So... if Tampa wins it all without Stamkos playing a single game, does that make him expendable? They need to shed salary and they clearly don't need him.
I'm too lazy to look up if he has a no trade clause, but what would it take to acquire him? A Stamokos/Monahan 1-2 punch at C would be pretty unreal!

Have a hard time seeing a scenario where Stamkos comes to Calgary. He has a NMC, took less to stay in Tampa, is living in a tax-free state, his wife is from the area, and his team is 4 wins away from the cup.

I'll go out on a limb and say it won't happen.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

So... if Tampa wins it all without Stamkos playing a single game, does that make him expendable? They need to shed salary and they clearly don't need him.
I'm too lazy to look up if he has a no trade clause, but what would it take to acquire him? A Stamokos/Monahan 1-2 punch at C would be pretty unreal!

Pretty sure Stamkos has a full NMC

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Have a hard time seeing a scenario where Stamkos comes to Calgary. He has a NMC, took less to stay in Tampa, is living in a tax-free state, his wife is from the area, and his team is 4 wins away from the cup.

I'll go out on a limb and say it won't happen.

Everything you just stated is correct. It doesn't change the fact that when the playoff dust settles Tampa is in a world of hurt cap space wise. SOMEONE with a big contract is out. Point, Hedman, Vasilevsky and Kucherov are not going anywhere. IF Stamko's is the oldest and the odd man out he's got decisions to make. Tax or no tax if Florida doesn't get him then why not Canada and Calgary? I agree just spit ballin but Tampa has a huge problem cup or no cup. And in this wierd flat cap if a team says they can't keep you then the NMCs and stuff mean very little if you know somethings got to give. Kadri had a NMC and he moved when it clear TO couldn't keep or pay him.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Kadri had a NMC and he moved when it clear TO couldn't keep or pay him.

Kadri didn’t have a NNC. If he did he would still be in Toronto because he didn’t want to leave. He had a limited no-trade clause that Calgary was on and Colorado wasn’t.

Tampa has a lot they can trade before asking Stamkos to waive.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

They don't have the cap space to fill out their roster, how are they supposed to afford an $8m defenseman? They'll have enough trouble finding the cap to sign a $5m defenseman.

By the looks of it, he wants $9 million.

Which basically means Toronto is guaranteed to get him!

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by Ped

Kadri didn’t have a NNC. If he did he would still be in Toronto because he didn’t want to leave. He had a limited no-trade clause that Calgary was on and Colorado wasn’t.

Tampa has a lot they can trade before asking Stamkos to waive.

Johnson, Palat, Gourde and Kilorn all have contract clauses FWIW. Tamps cap issues would mean they trade 2 of those guys somehow and try to take very little cap in return. Someone has to play for them next year and like Calgary most of their defense is all RFA/UFA.

I agree they'll try hard to fix it and keep their captain but in a month or so reality bites.

All the focus on pretend trades and this is certainly a speculative notion, but the cap issues this year coupled with many teams deciding NOT to spend to the cap at all is going to make for some pretty surprising and volatile moves. Arizona is also in serious trouble since their owner is a Casino Billionaire and he's in serious trouble and wants to spend even less. Hence the OEL rumors.

If Calgary resigns Brodie and Talbot as a for instance and lets Hamonic walk, then Calgary has a walloping $3 mill or so to slosh around and our team is NOT in cap trouble.

I guess the question is can Treliving package a player and leverage his few mill in cap space to bring in a real player?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Everything you just stated is correct. It doesn't change the fact that when the playoff dust settles Tampa is in a world of hurt cap space wise. SOMEONE with a big contract is out. Point, Hedman, Vasilevsky and Kucherov are not going anywhere. IF Stamko's is the oldest and the odd man out he's got decisions to make. Tax or no tax if Florida doesn't get him then why not Canada and Calgary? I agree just spit ballin but Tampa has a huge problem cup or no cup. And in this wierd flat cap if a team says they can't keep you then the NMCs and stuff mean very little if you know somethings got to give. Kadri had a NMC and he moved when it clear TO couldn't keep or pay him.

I don’t see the correlation between Kadri and Stamkos. The Kadri deal wasn’t a salary dump. The motivation to move the player was not because of cap constraints. If anything the Leafs should have kept Kadri because of his contract.

Stamkos has a full NM. He’s their captain and I highly doubt he’s going anywhere this offseason. The Lighting will move quite a few before they move Stamkos. There’s no indication from either Stamkos or the Lightning that either side is even entertaining a split....Just my opinion though.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Everything you just stated is correct. It doesn't change the fact that when the playoff dust settles Tampa is in a world of hurt cap space wise. SOMEONE with a big contract is out. Point, Hedman, Vasilevsky and Kucherov are not going anywhere. IF Stamko's is the oldest and the odd man out he's got decisions to make. Tax or no tax if Florida doesn't get him then why not Canada and Calgary? I agree just spit ballin but Tampa has a huge problem cup or no cup. And in this wierd flat cap if a team says they can't keep you then the NMCs and stuff mean very little if you know somethings got to give. Kadri had a NMC and he moved when it clear TO couldn't keep or pay him.

Meh. Every off season a cap strapped team comes along and we gush that they will have to trade one of their top players. Every season the cap strapped team maneuvers out of it without trading one of the top players. This will be a bit harder this season for Tampa, but im pretty sure they will get out of it without trading Stamkos, Kucherov ect.