Markstrom and the hockey God's owe us for the Edmonton series and last season so he is going to go supernova and carry this rag tag bunch on a good postseason run this year.
Do you think Mike Smith is a top goalie? Eerily similar to Markstrom right now and traded for a 3rd and prospect.
No, I don't. He caught lightning in a bottle the one year in Phoenix, and media types raved about his skill as a puckhandler – which he used too often and with poor judgement, so it may not have been a net positive at all.
Apart from that, he was an above-average goalie, but not a top one.
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We don't and likely won't know if that was on the table, but the title of this very topic includes "unless a higher draft pick is inlcuded" which makes me think it wasn't a 1st as it's hard to get higher than that.
Could without protection, and/or conditions that specify you must tank to raise the pick position .
Do you think Mike Smith is a top goalie? Eerily similar to Markstrom right now and traded for a 3rd and prospect.
Was Rick Wamsley a top goalie? Netted St Louis a Hull. Sometimes a GM needs to be able to see what his team really needs in order to compete and go deep in the playoff.
I recall and am paraphrasing what Fletcher said after he traded Hull. He said "we know Brett is going to be good, like real good. But we want to win now not a few years down the road. Wamsley and Ramage is our insurance policy, and you have to pay get that policy."
They paid and they won, end of story.
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No, I don't. He caught lightning in a bottle the one year in Phoenix, and media types raved about his skill as a puckhandler – which he used too often and with poor judgement, so it may not have been a net positive at all.
Apart from that, he was an above-average goalie, but not a top one.
Well go look at the seasons they have had. It’s pretty close.
2.70 gaa .912 save % Smith
2.71 gaa .910 save % Markstrom
So if you think Markstrom is a top goalie, Smith had similar seasons so he would be a top goalie as well. We paid a 3rd, Hickey and a backup form him.
Was Rick Wamsley a top goalie? Netted St Louis a Hull. Sometimes a GM needs to be able to see what his team really needs in order to compete and go deep in the playoff.
I recall and am paraphrasing what Fletcher said after he traded Hull. He said "we know Brett is going to be good, like real good. But we want to win now not a few years down the road. Wamsley and Ramage is our insurance policy, and you have to pay get that policy."
They paid and they won, end of story.
I have no idea. I was just a baby lol.
It’s a bit different here no? That Flames team was #1 in the NHL. The Devils are likely to miss the playoffs.
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Well go look at the seasons they have had. It’s pretty close.
2.70 gaa .912 save % Smith
2.71 gaa .910 save % Markstrom
So if you think Markstrom is a top goalie, Smith had similar seasons so he would be a top goalie as well. We paid a 3rd, Hickey and a backup form him.
Save percentages all over the league were higher when Smith was playing. Not directly comparable.
And the price for a goalie during the off season, coming from a team in the bottom of a rebuild that does not want to keep that goalie, is very different from the price at the deadline in a deal between two teams with similar odds of making the playoffs. Hell, every player is liable to go for more at the deadline than any other time of year.
The bottom line is, Fitzgerald went after three good goalies: Markstrom, Saros, and Ullmark. He wasn't willing to trade Mercer for any of them, and none of those three teams were willing to trade their goalies unless they got Mercer. So he went out instead and traded junk for junk.
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Last edited by Jay Random; 03-08-2024 at 09:43 PM.
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Since somebody mentioned Mike Smith, let’s remember we just passed the 10 year anniversary of the OT goal he scored on himself when the puck was in his pants
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What I'm trying to say is, don't want to part with a young player to fix a clear problem is not good GMing. They are likely to miss the playoff because they did not trade for a good goalie. If they had done that, they might be fight for first in the division. And the reason for him to not trade Mercer was they he sees Mercer a 2C but who isn't playing as a center anyway, and that's bad. Seems like he wanted to be the GM who WIN the trade instead of a GM who trade to help his team.
Wow...I didn't recall that Edmonton had offered a 1st+2nd+prospect for Schneider as Dreger says in that clip. Sliding doors moment:
It's hard to believe that even Gillis would take 9OA out of conference over EDM's 7OA that year (Nurse)++, so presumably EDM was offering their 2014 1st...if unprotected it means no Draisaitl (who knows if VAN takes Bennett at 3OA and CGY gets Drai) - or more likely there is some protection on the pick so it slides to the following year and McDavid is a Canuck.
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Originally Posted by midniteowl
Let's walk down the memory lane, on March 7, 1988, the Calgary Flames agreed to send 23-year-old forward Brett Hull along with 27-year-old forward Steve Bozek to the St. Louis Blues for 29-year-old defenseman Rob Ramage and 28-year-old goaltender Rick Wamsley. End result, Flames won their first Cup. If they had said to St Louis "we are not trading our 23 year old sniper for your 28 year old back up and a 29 year old bottom pairing defenseman" The Flames might not have won the cup.
True. Or maybe if the Flames keep Hull they win multiple cups.
Smith's season prior to being traded vs Markstrom (if he was traded)
Sv % average in 2016-2017 was .913
Smith was .914
Sv% average in 2023-2024 is .903
Markstrom is .911
Save percentages all over the league were higher when Smith was playing. Not directly comparable.
And the price for a goalie during the off season, coming from a team in the bottom of a rebuild that does not want to keep that goalie, is very different from the price at the deadline in a deal between two teams with similar odds of making the playoffs. Hell, every player is liable to go for more at the deadline than any other time of year.
The bottom line is, Fitzgerald went after three good goalies: Markstrom, Saros, and Ullmark. He wasn't willing to trade Mercer for any of them, and none of those three teams were willing to trade their goalies unless they got Mercer. So he went out instead and traded junk for junk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
Smith hasn't played since 2021-22. The following two seasons have been the highest-scoring in the NHL since the mid-1990s.
I just don't see any significant value in Holtz. I'd want something more than a (presumably protected) 1st for Markstrom just now.
So 1 year? Smith was playing the other highest scoring season. It’s not like they played in different eras. It’s very similar.
Isn’t scoring back down this season ?
Based on what goalies have historically returned especially the ones Markstrom age it’s a great return.
But we have no idea what was offered. Like I’ve said if that was the offer it’s a major fumble. Maybe they did get offered the Smith package, and declining that is fine. Giving away Markstrom for a 3rd and some throwaway prospect would be silly.
True. Or maybe if the Flames keep Hull they win multiple cups.
No, they won't. As pure a sniper Hull was, his game was never complete. He needed a coach like Hitch to force him to play defense to win his first cup with Dallas and a deep team and Lidstrom in Detroit.
So NJ traded the 9th overall pick in the draft they hosted for Cory Schneider (which VAN then used to draft Bo Horvat)? Seems like a big FU to any Devils fans in attendance.
No, they won't. As pure a sniper Hull was, his game was never complete. He needed a coach like Hitch to force him to play defense to win his first cup with Dallas and a deep team and Lidstrom in Detroit.
Ok. But long before Hitch Hull had a stretch where he scored 228 goals in 231 games. Maybe he does similar if he stays in Calgary (or maybe he doesn't). Maybe in an alternate timeline CGY trades Hakan Loob for somebody like Ramage and gets the best of both worlds, winning multiple cups in the early 90s.
Not saying it was a bad trade, just that the alternate timelines are interesting to ponder
Ok. But long before Hitch Hull had a stretch where he scored 228 goals in 231 games. Maybe he does similar if he stays in Calgary (or maybe he doesn't). Maybe in an alternate timeline CGY trades Hakan Loob for somebody like Ramage and gets the best of both worlds, winning multiple cups in the early 90s.
Not saying it was a bad trade, just that the alternate timelines are interesting to ponder
Don't forget, after the cup, Vernon kinda fell off and Kidd was a complete disaster. Still cannot believe they drafted Kidd instead of Brodeur. If they had drafted Brodeur, yeah, they could have won more than 1 cup.
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So NJ traded the 9th overall pick in the draft they hosted for Cory Schneider (which VAN then used to draft Bo Horvat)? Seems like a big FU to any Devils fans in attendance.
The Devils were 1 year removed from losing the SCF in 6 games to the Kings (two of the losses were in OT). Then they were mediocre in the lockout year. Brodeur was 41. Elias was getting old too, but the rest of the core was in their prime, including Kovlachuk (though he 'retired' from the NHL like two weeks after the draft...apparently Lou knew he was considering it, but who knows if it would have changed his approach)
It made sense to keep pushing. Devils fans probably wanted to compete rather than rebuild.
The other thing is that the Devils had a draft pick penalty hanging over their heads...they had to surrender a 1st in either 2011 or 2012 or 2013 or 2014. Strangely, they didn't surrender it in 2012 when they were picking 29th overall (pick ended up a bust anyways), so they may have thought they weren't going to have a 1st in 2014, so they should try hard to be good regardless. The penalty ended up revised to the Devils dropping to the end of the 1st round in 2014 (instead of ~11th where they belonged). Which is interesting in itself...I wonder if Lou's plan was just to delay the penalty as long as possible and then just convince Bettman to drop it.
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Don't forget, after the cup, Vernon kinda fell off and Kidd was a complete disaster. Still cannot believe they drafted Kidd instead of Brodeur. If they had drafted Brodeur, yeah, they could have won more than 1 cup.
Imagine 700 more goals out of Hull and 700 wins out of Brodeur!
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I have no idea. I was just a baby lol. 
If they had drafted Brodeur, yeah, they could have won more than 1 cup. 