07-18-2019, 04:05 PM
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#821
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
This isn't true, Neal had much better shot suppression
Still I'd like to see Bennett given a chance just as much as Neal.
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I'm not sure about that...at least not at 5v5. He had better shot suppression away from Bennett than he did with him, but Bennett also had better shot suppression when playing away from Neal.
Based on that Bennett was the only thing that kept Neal above water last season. Bennett was actually pretty good with and without Neal, where as Neal was absolutely horrible away from Bennett.
I don't think Neal+Tkachuk have the footspeed to play together, and I feel like through his career Neal has been better with quicker, more tenacious guys that can win the puck battle and help get it to him.
Personally I wouldn't mind seeing something like Dube - Bennett - Neal. I actually think Neal with a couple of guys like that would help mask his deficiencies.
I think Jankowski and Neal had similar issues with being too slow playing together, and it showed by how bad they were when not paired with Bennett.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 07-18-2019 at 04:20 PM.
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07-18-2019, 04:07 PM
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#822
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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Hmmm those are interesting numbers, I hadn't seen them before. Where'd you get them? Thanks for sharing them, I'd just been looking at each player's individual CA/60 on Corsica.
__________________
"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco
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07-18-2019, 04:15 PM
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#823
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
Hmmm those are interesting numbers, I hadn't seen them before. Where'd you get them? Thanks for sharing them, I'd just been looking at each player's individual CA/60 on Corsica.
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Natural Stat Trick Line Combination Tool
https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php
Welcome to the internet rabbit hole that is advanced stats.
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07-18-2019, 04:17 PM
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#824
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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Thanks pal
This is the best kind of discussion on CP, never devolving into snippy comments and all focused on numbers and information and learning
__________________
"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco
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07-18-2019, 04:24 PM
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#825
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
Thanks pal
This is the best kind of discussion on CP, never devolving into snippy comments and all focused on numbers and information and learning
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No it's not dork!
Fight me.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotHotHeat
THIS is why people make fun of Edmonton. When will this stupid city figure it out? They continue to kick their own ass every day, it's impossible not to make fun of them.
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07-18-2019, 04:31 PM
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#826
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
I think a successful season for Neal includes him completely replacing Frolik's offense while playing on the second line. 15-18 goals, 35-45 points, decent PP2 production. I think that's realistic, considering that he was on a 13-goal, 39-point pace after New Years'.
It'd help if he didn't get any worse defensively, either. For example, Tkachuk allowed 50.0 CA/60 last year, while Neal was closer to 55.6 CA/60 (Corsi attempts against/60 -- higher numbers indicate more shots allowed). Neal's numbers weren't otherworldly bad by any means -- Bennett was at 63.9, indicating that Neal was far from the problem on his line. Monahan was only slightly better than Neal, at 53.4 CA/60. So as long as Neal can avoid being an outright poor defensive player (if he plays with Tkachuk), I think we could see a successful season.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
There's a lot of wrong to unpack here lol. First, I am not sure any of what we gave up in those trades were notable "assets". Horak couldn't find his role with our club (nor with Edmonton, so now he's gone.) Brossoit was surpassed on our own depth charts, though I also thought we gave up on him too early. He was abysmal in Edmonton though and is finding his way now, but no guarantee at all that would have happened here. 3rd round picks go for 3rd pairing dmen every single year. It's one of the few set prices around the league that seems to have changed very little with time.
I also think that you have undervalued what Staios and to a lesser extent Smid were. Smid was a 1st round pick that had a solid start to his career and it was derailed by injuries. He may have been able to overcome though, so I think it was a worthy risk. Staios was, at one time, a much better defender than stone. He may have been over the hill when we picked him up, but he had a great playoff resume and that was Darryl's focus. The third rounder has even less value with Darryl making the pick and Aaron Johnson was a career AHLer so we pretty much got him for free.
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It is like saying we lost the Granlund for Shinkaruk deal. Granlund has one decent season when the Canucks were a pure dumpster fire and Shinkaruk had a nice little audition in meaningless games but ultimately couldn’t stick.
None of these trades were really won or lost as they did not have a real impact on either team.
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07-18-2019, 05:23 PM
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#827
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny01
It is like saying we lost the Granlund for Shinkaruk deal. Granlund has one decent season when the Canucks were a pure dumpster fire and Shinkaruk had a nice little audition in meaningless games but ultimately couldn’t stick.
None of these trades were really won or lost as they did not have a real impact on either team.
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This just reminded me that I'm looking forward to marcus getting his crack with McDavid next year. Hes way better than chiasson but lol only on the Oilers.
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07-18-2019, 05:29 PM
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#828
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
This just reminded me that I'm looking forward to marcus getting his crack with McDavid next year. Hes way better than chiasson but lol only on the Oilers.
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A bit off topic but of all the "4th liner" the Oilers brought in I actually think he could be good on McDavid's wing.
He's a guy that strong in his defensive zone, has a decent shot, but struggles to generate offense himself.
With McDavid/Draisaitl he wouldn't need to generate offense but more be a guy that can finish the play, and cover their warts defensively.
Could see him fitting in pretty good on that line.
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07-18-2019, 06:05 PM
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#829
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden
Realistically, what would people call a successful season from Neal?
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I don't know if 20 goals is realistic from the bottom six but reasonable expectation would be that he is one of Calgary's better even strength producers.
in 2018-19 Neal was ranked 13th of the 13 forwards on CGY in 5v5 P1/ 60 (400+ minutes logged)
in 2017-18 he was 4/15 on VGK
in 2016-17 he was 4/15 on NSH
in 2015-16 he was 3/20 on NSH
His dropoff last year at even strength was bizarre to say the least. He wasn't just poor relative the team as a whole, but poor relative to guys like Bennett, Ryan, Mangiapane, even Jankowski who were his typical linemates.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
Last edited by GranteedEV; 07-18-2019 at 06:07 PM.
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07-18-2019, 07:42 PM
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#830
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First Line Centre
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His drop off isn’t so bizarre. He was playing for his retirement contract and he got it. He took his foot off the gas and now can’t find the pedal. This year will tell us all we need to know about Neal. Cheer him or run him out of town on a rail! Gonna be interesting.
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07-18-2019, 07:46 PM
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#831
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Uncle Chester
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Lowetide and Kent Wilson have an article at the Athletic weighing the pros and cons of trading Bennett to the Oilers for Puljujarvi. Yuck. I’d hate to see a deal like this. Just reading the article gives me anxiety.
Don’t do it Brad.
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07-18-2019, 07:52 PM
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#832
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In the studio
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Bennett for Puljujarvi one for one?? Yeah that just would never happen I just couldn’t see it. Honestly the only way I’d consider it would be the Oilers first next year not lottery protected and even then I’d be super against it until the 1st round choice was known. Just say no to trading with Edmonton.
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07-18-2019, 08:08 PM
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#833
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ontario
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I will lose my crap if Bennett becomes an Oiler.
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07-18-2019, 09:01 PM
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#834
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In the studio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dissentowner
I will lose my crap if Bennett becomes an Oiler.
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Same here.. he’s still only 22 and he’s Calgary’s highest ever pick it would just seem foolish to deal him especially to the Oilers.
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07-18-2019, 09:13 PM
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#835
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In the studio
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I saw a rumour here about Atkinson I think from an Oilers writer so who knows lol but it got me thinking about Cam on this team and it actually would make a lot of sense. I know he’s a bit streaky and he’s 30 now but man would he look good opposite of Tkachuk and the BJ’s actually have quite a bit of needs now.
Something around Brodie + Neal? Or Brodie + Frolik? Brodie + Jankowski? Which one to start and what type of pick/prospect would need to be added?
In a perfect world I’d love to see a deal for Atkinson and then a Neal for Turris trade if we were able to clear enough space.
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07-19-2019, 05:41 AM
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#836
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy Jack
I saw a rumour here about Atkinson I think from an Oilers writer so who knows lol but it got me thinking about Cam on this team and it actually would make a lot of sense. I know he’s a bit streaky and he’s 30 now but man would he look good opposite of Tkachuk and the BJ’s actually have quite a bit of needs now.
Something around Brodie + Neal? Or Brodie + Frolik? Brodie + Jankowski? Which one to start and what type of pick/prospect would need to be added?
In a perfect world I’d love to see a deal for Atkinson and then a Neal for Turris trade if we were able to clear enough space.
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Why would Columbus trade Atkinson, a sought after player for a 1-year rental of Brodie, much less taking on a boat anchor contract like Neal to boot?
Atkinson scored 41 goals last year.
Maybe they do it for like Bennett and Valimaki if they decided to retool.
The return would hurt. Many teams would bid for Atkinson if he was available, even with his contract.
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07-19-2019, 05:50 AM
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#837
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In the studio
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Well obviously they wouldn’t be trading for just 1 year of Brodie; it would be with the intent to extend him and they need to recoup picks now from gutting their futures.
Brodie + Jankowski + 20 1st + 21 2nd might be enticing enough but who knows. I agree though if he was available (which I don’t think he is as I stated) there would be a bidding war for him.
Last edited by Heavy Jack; 07-19-2019 at 05:54 AM.
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07-19-2019, 05:53 AM
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#838
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In the studio
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Double post
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07-19-2019, 07:27 AM
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#839
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportsJunky
Lowetide and Kent Wilson have an article at the Athletic weighing the pros and cons of trading Bennett to the Oilers for Puljujarvi. Yuck. I’d hate to see a deal like this. Just reading the article gives me anxiety.
Don’t do it Brad.
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I tried to read that article but it just made me sick. The thought of trading Bennett for PJ just made me roll my eyes. I know the premise of the article was why and why not, I struggled to justify the why's when reading, but if it ever came to be I really would wonder about Tre's sanity. Gave that article a thumbs down.
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07-19-2019, 07:34 AM
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#840
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy Jack
Well obviously they wouldn’t be trading for just 1 year of Brodie; it would be with the intent to extend him and they need to recoup picks now from gutting their futures.
Brodie + Jankowski + 20 1st + 21 2nd might be enticing enough but who knows. I agree though if he was available (which I don’t think he is as I stated) there would be a bidding war for him.
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The premise of the deal you proposed makes no sense for either team.
Calgary should not be giving up 1st, 2nd round picks and 2 good assets for another small LW. Literally the last thing this team needs. It does nothing for the cap situation either.
The Jackets just lost their top winger so it doesn’t make sense for them to trade their next best winger centered around a package that would bring them their 3rd best Dman and a 3rd/4th line C.
Not good trading partners imo.
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