The Canadian Men's Soccer Team Thread

[polak]

I think it's quite selfish to expect these kids to play for Canada. Its 100% on the CSA for becoming such a joke that this exodus of talent is such a problem. You get one shot at life. One shot to follow your dream. Most of these kids dream of winning the world cup so if they get the opportunity to follow that dream then who are you to tell them they shouldn't?

Imagine the regret that De Guzman would feel if he chose Canada over the Dutch and had to watch them potentially win the world cup in a few days while he knows that he will never in his life get that opportunity with the Canadian team and therefore will never, in his life, be able to live out his dream despite being good enough.

Like I said the CSA and Canada has no one to blame for situations like this but themselves. Canadian soccer is a joke and until the CSA figures out a way to entice Canadian talent to stay (money talks) then it will remain a joke and the best Canadians will always be playing in the world cup.... For other teams and rightfully so.

The players dont owe the CSA anything as the CSA does barely anything for them.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by polak

I think it's quite selfish to expect these kids to play for Canada. Its 100% on the CSA for becoming such a joke that this exodus of talent is such a problem. You get one shot at life. One shot to follow your dream. Most of these kids dream of winning the world cup so if they get the opportunity to follow that dream then who are you to tell them they shouldn't?

Imagine the regret that De Guzman would feel if he chose Canada over the Dutch and had to watch them potentially win the world cup in a few days while he knows that he will never in his life get that opportunity with the Canadian team and therefore will never, in his life, be able to live out his dream despite being good enough.

Like I said the CSA and Canada has no one to blame for situations like this but themselves. Canadian soccer is a joke and until the CSA figures out a way to entice Canadian talent to stay (money talks) then it will remain a joke and the best Canadians will always be playing in the world cup.... For other teams and rightfully so.

The players dont owe the CSA anything as the CSA does barely anything for them.

What a total bunch of crap. It's called patriotism. If their dream is to represent other countries then leave and go develop in those countries.

How is Canada suppose to get better when what developed at grassroots wants to play elsewhere? It all starts at the bottom. Get few decent players and build a team, more will come but if they act selfishly like your example in De Guzman then we won't ever build a competitive team.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

How is Canada suppose to get better when what developed at grassroots wants to play elsewhere? It all starts at the bottom. Get few decent players and build a team, more will come but if they act selfishly like your example in De Guzman then we won't ever build a competitive team.

You can't plan for success on the back of a few players, we need to create a constant stream of quality. It's getting better but we're still not at that point and cases like de Guzman and Bustos will continue to pop-up in the mean time.

[shermanator]

So, not only are the Whitecaps supporting Bustos' decision to accept the Chile U-20 callup, they put out a press release congratulating him. Absolutely pathetic.

http://www.whitecapsfc.com/news/2014...-national-team

[nik-]

Originally Posted by shermanator

So, not only are the Whitecaps supporting Bustos' decision to accept the Chile U-20 callup, they put out a press release congratulating him. Absolutely pathetic.

http://www.whitecapsfc.com/news/2014...-national-team

Well really, what are they supposed to do? Chastise and alienate their player?

It's not their responsibility.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by polak

I think it's quite selfish to expect these kids to play for Canada. Its 100% on the CSA for becoming such a joke that this exodus of talent is such a problem. You get one shot at life. One shot to follow your dream. Most of these kids dream of winning the world cup so if they get the opportunity to follow that dream then who are you to tell them they shouldn't?

Imagine the regret that De Guzman would feel if he chose Canada over the Dutch and had to watch them potentially win the world cup in a few days while he knows that he will never in his life get that opportunity with the Canadian team and therefore will never, in his life, be able to live out his dream despite being good enough.

Like I said the CSA and Canada has no one to blame for situations like this but themselves. Canadian soccer is a joke and until the CSA figures out a way to entice Canadian talent to stay (money talks) then it will remain a joke and the best Canadians will always be playing in the world cup.... For other teams and rightfully so.

The players dont owe the CSA anything as the CSA does barely anything for them.

I do agree with this, Canada doesn't hold their talent. I think it was just one moment of opportunity that Canada missed out on. They had Hargreaves 1 year before England did.

Here's the timeline

June 2000: Canada wins Gold Cup
- If Canada knew Hargreaves was going to be this good, they should have capped him in this tournament at 19. Canada wasn't expecting to do well anyways, cap him.

July 2000:
WCQ: Canada 0-2 T&T Edmonton
WCQ: Panama 0-0 Canada Panama City
No Hargreaves. The other team is Mexico. Is the WCQ campaign over at this point?

August 2000: This article is written:
http://www.canoe.ca/SoccerCanadaArchive/aug3_har.html

Some quotes:

Canadian national team coach Holger Osieck says he has his eye on Hargreaves.

"He is not out of sight. I'm in touch with (Bayern Munich president) Franz Beckenbauer and I'm getting all the information," Osieck said. "He's not lost."

Asked if Hargreaves might be called up during this current round of World Cup qualifying, Osieck said: "Maybe not yet, but later probably."

"In midfield, we don't have any problems at all," Osieck added. "If he was a striker, it would make things different."

Maybe not yet but later? what are you waiting for? You have 1 point in 2 matches. It's not like Canada's midfield were star-studded. It was guys like Martin Nash. Cap him now!

September 2000
WCQ T&T 4-0 Canada Port of Spain

The campaign is truly over, why not try and ger Hargreaves for the last 3 matches? Perhaps it's too late and he wants to play for England who will qualify instead of Canada who aren't.

Last chance
June 2001 Confederations Cup. The CSA made 2 million for being there. Last chance to entice Hargraves to play in a tournament? Probably too late cause England was about to qualify.

August 2001
Hargreaves earns first cap for England.


So was there opportunity there to cap an 18-19 year old Hargreaves? If so, other Canadians who chose elsewhere might have followed suit. I believe with Hargreaves, Canada would have qualified for 2006 cause that campaign in CONCACAF was horrible. The Central Americans were rebuilding and T&T qualified with an aging Dwight Yorke.

[Matty81]

I think people seeing international play as a career advancement vehicle is really problematic and undermines the whole purpose of international soccer to represent your country. If you're not feeling it, skip international soccer all together.

It's always a big debate as to what constitutes "your country" but I think Fifa should definitely have rules to ban players from playing for countries they've never even lived in (like Bustos and Chile for example) at least.

As much as this is a kick in the shins to a lot of people right at world cup time... if you were born and raised in Canada, you are not from Portugal or Ireland or wherever because your parents or grandparents are from there. Before that, your ancestors wandered there from somewhere else in europe, by way of africa and you've got the same connection to those places. Ethnic nationalism is freaking ridiculous in this day and age.

Fifa needs to ditch the ancestry rules because they are bullcrap. And I'm not saying Canada hasn't used them (*cough* Bircham), but they are not logical at all.

[shermanator]

Let's look at this same scenario in another sport, one where Canada is amongst the leaders of the world. How do you feel about Brett Hull playing hockey for the USA? Are you on board with that particular decision? If so, why?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Let's look at this same scenario in another sport, one where Canada is amongst the leaders of the world. How do you feel about Brett Hull playing hockey for the USA? Are you on board with that particular decision? If so, why?

They're not really comparable situations other than it's a person playing for a country they're eligible for. The reasoning behind the decision for Hull is totally different than the reasoning for these football players. If it was a Hull situation, all of these players would be lining up to play for Canada because it's easier to make the team.

[SuperMatt18]

I have to say as a first generation Canadian it would have been a hard decision for me.

When I grew up playing Soccer I didn't follow the Canadian national team or idolize any of the team. I cheered for Italy, idolized their players, and was a huge follower.

If I was 18 years old and had to make the decision between playing for Canada or having a spot on the Italian National team I am not sure what decision I would have made.

At 26 years old now I think about it and lean towards Canada, but as a younger man I think it would have been 100% the Italian team where I would have had a chance to win a World Cup and play with players I idolized growing up.

[Matty81]

I don't even think it should be an option for you if you weren't born in or lived in Italy. I respect why you would like their team, but honestly if you have never lived there you are not Italian in anything more than a tribal or ethnic sense... which nowadays in an era where your star player is a person ethnically from Ghana should mean nothing in international soccer.

Every country is filled with migrants and people are moving all over the world... ethnic nationalism is going to be dead soon in most of the world.

Fifa needs to ditch the ancestry qualification stat. Of course that will never happen because it involves fifa making a reasonable decision.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Fifa needs to ditch the ancestry qualification stat. Of course that will never happen because it involves fifa making a reasonable decision.

Why? So Canada could possibly qualify for the World Cup sooner? I think Canada and FIFA have much larger issues with which to deal.

[Matty81]

Tosaint Ricketts moved to Israel's Hapoel Haifa on a two year deal:
http://translate.google.com/translat...2559&sandbox=1

Fifa has lots of issues... doesn't mean they can't fix nationality rules too, they have been a joke for too long, even worse now that they let people switch even after representing another country at u-20 competitions.

They need to up the residency requirement and ditch ancestry rules that allow people to play for countries they've never been to asap.

[Ozy_Flame]

Off topic a bit, but Vancouver Whitecaps have signed a memorandum of understanding with the City of New Westminster to bring a USL Pro league team there starting in 2015.

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/mls/story/?id=456731

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Off topic a bit, but Vancouver Whitecaps have signed a memorandum of understanding with the City of New Westminster to bring a USL Pro league team there starting in 2015.

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/mls/story/?id=456731

This is a promising development. Hopefully once things start rolling in Calgary, the surrounding area will benefit in a similar fashion.

Originally Posted by Matty81

Fifa has lots of issues... doesn't mean they can't fix nationality rules too, they have been a joke for too long, even worse now that they let people switch even after representing another country at u-20 competitions.

They need to up the residency requirement and ditch ancestry rules that allow people to play for countries they've never been to asap.

Genuine question, are any other countries making a major issue out of this?

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Addick

Genuine question, are any other countries making a major issue out of this?

I don't know who is pushing for what in terms of reforming international eligibility to be honest. Every 5 years or so they change them slightly with whichever way the wind is blowing. I'm sure some countries would like to see this change and others want to keep it out of self interest. The feds don't tend to support things on logic, rather, what will benefit them. I think with the world globalizing and ethnic nationalism becoming less and less important in the first world it is just a matter of time before they kick ancestry but it will take some time.

The ridiculousness of a player representing a country he's never been to will eventually happen at a big tournament and cause some outcry.

That is a big development in Vancouver, should be a few more USL pro spots for Canadians which is great. The idea of a Canadian national league seems pretty remote though.

Too bad they didn't but the franchise in Victoria or Kelowna IMO. Vic already has that PDL team but that would have been a step up and the valley has nothing and there are almost 400K people here.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Off topic a bit, but Vancouver Whitecaps have signed a memorandum of understanding with the City of New Westminster to bring a USL Pro league team there starting in 2015.

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/mls/story/?id=456731

Presuming this moves ahead, this is great news. There aren't any options between the local ranks and the pros right now, so a USL Pro team that can develop the 16-22 year old Canadians is exactly what is needed. Hopefully Calgary Foothills can get the same type of team.

[shermanator]

Sooooo the CSA, CFL and NASL are in negotiations to form an all-Canadian league?

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/in...n-league-r4701

[Matty81]

Good find. That's a pretty big scoop for a smaller news website like that to get first. I will be really interested to see how this shapes up.

I don't know if Regina would ever support a soccer team but adding at least a couple more NASL teams in Hamilton, Calgary and Winnipeg makes sense.

[Matty81]

This also presumably means the Flames are pretty heavily involved in this negotiation as the owner of the CFL's Stampeders. Really since Edmonton and Ottawa are already in the NASL and the 3 MLS cities are opting out that means its Bob Young in Hamilton, the Flames owners in Calgary, and whoever owns the Blue Bombers and Rough Riders as the four groups pushing this forward.

Makes a lot of sense given all the rumors about them building a new stadium as part of the arena complex. Would be great to see the Flames get involved in pro soccer in Calgary!