[Rumour] Houston Rockets owner has had preliminary talks about buying the Coyotes

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You’re really not, even the federal competition bureau stands by what Daly said. No owner can move a franchise without BOG approval.

But I guess you’re smarter than Daly or the people federally in charge for upholding laws related to this, right?

Are you being obtuse or are you purposefully ignoring the fact that an owner can relocate after seven years according to the NHL's own policies??

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Except for Article 4.2 of the League Constitution which he signed.

Except where it says right in the owners agreement that Melnyk signed that an owner can relocate after 7 years.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Except where it says right in the owners agreement that Melnyk signed that an owner can relocate after 7 years.

Let's see that. But I imagine it's subject to the provisions of the constitution.

You already misrepresented the Dallas situation, so I need to see the actual document.

[dissentowner]

Regardless it would be interesting to see how it would play out. I just can't see how the NHL could possibly stop it.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You already misrepresented the Dallas situation, so I need to see the actual document.

Oh do tell how.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Are you being obtuse or are you purposefully ignoring the fact that an owner can relocate after seven years according to the NHL's own policies??

That’s when they can apply for relocation.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Oh do tell how.

You suggested the NHL opposed the Dallas move ("and look how that turned out") when in fact they allowed him to move, and let him go wherever he wanted (except LA).

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You suggested the NHL opposed the Dallas move ("and look how that turned out") when in fact they allowed him to move, and let him go wherever he wanted (except LA).

Because he told them he could relocate where ever he wanted and they could do diddly about it. He was originally going to move the team to Anaheim but Disney was kicking big dollars to the NHL so they "convinced" him to move to Dallas instead.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

That’s when they can apply for relocation.

Ok, we will agree to disagree. I am confident from reading articles and looking at the way the agreement is written between the NHL and owners along with established case law on the relocation of teams that the NHL could not stop Melynk from moving the Senators to a lucrative market.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Because he told them he could relocate where ever he wanted and they could do diddly about it. He was originally going to move the team to Anaheim but Disney was kicking big dollars to the NHL so they "convinced" him to move to Dallas instead.

You said they opposed it. So let's see some support for that assertion because Green says otherwise. He doesn't sat he threatened them with a lawsuit. More obviously, if he could go wherever he wanted without their approval, he should have gone to LA and gotten that market, like he wanted. It seems he knew they could block him.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Thank you for proving my point. This was the whole Hamilton fiasco where the owner was not in place for 7 years.



Regardless of what a bureau says it is quite clear that is Melnyk wanted to butt heads with Bettman and go to court he has been an owner for over 7 years and
courts in other such cases. Chances are it is never happening anyhow but legally there is nothing saying he cannot do it.

Also, it doesn’t prove your point, it disproves it. The competition bureau upheld the NHL by-laws, not specific to the situation, but that the bylaw itself did not step outside any legal parameters.

Also also, this provide more context into what you’re misinterpreting. This is the process for franchise location and (as you said) can be entered into after 7 years of ownership. Once a owner decides he wants to relocate, they must still apply.

BY-LAWS

Section 36

Transfer of Franchise Location

36.1. Application

(a) Any Member Club seeking consent to a transfer of its franchise and club to a different city or borough in accordance with Section 4.2 of the Constitution, shall file a written application for such consent with the Commissioner of the League.

(b) Such application shall be filed no later than January 1 of the year prior to the year in which it is proposed the Club will commence its first season in the new location, unless a majority of the Member Clubs consents to a later filing date.

(c) The application shall include a statement as to why the applicant seeks such transfer. It shall also include a statement of reasons why the applicant believes consent to the proposed transfer should be given and shall be accompanied by such documentation as the applicant deems appropriate, in light of the provisions of this By-Law Section 36 and Section 4.2 of the Constitution.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ok, we will agree to disagree. I am confident from reading articles and looking at the way the agreement is written between the NHL and owners along with established case law on the relocation of teams that the NHL could not stop Melynk from moving the Senators to a lucrative market.

The more confident you are, the worse it looks. I’d actually advise against “agreeing to disagree” and take the free education on offer from GioforPM.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The more confident you are, the worse it looks. I’d actually advise against “agreeing to disagree” and take the free education on offer from GioforPM.

You are not taking into account that this is a business and still applies to court law. So Melnyk applies for relocation, he cites poor attendance and loss of revenue that he believes he can make in QC. The NHL refuses why? They want teams to stay where they are? Great, Melnyk takes the NHL to court and gives his reasons, that he is bleeding money and you think a judge will side with the NHL to stop him why? The NHL does not trump actual laws. One of two things are happening. Either they are moving or the NHL would be forced to buy the Senators to keep them there. There is no way in hell a court of law is going to tell somebody that has business asset they can't relocate and have to continue to lose money. Oh, and you can take your "free education" petty shot back to Grade 3. Grow up.

[Shazam]

Sport league contracts are like software EULAs. No one knows what's in them, no one reads them, and no one wants to ever test them out.

[dissentowner]

The thing is it is a what if game, it isn't going to happen anyhow so not sure why this getting so heated. I don't give a rats patooty where the Sens play.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You are not taking into account that this is a business and still applies to court law. So Melnyk applies for relocation, he cites poor attendance and loss of revenue that he believes he can make in QC. The NHL refuses why? They want teams to stay where they are? Great, Melnyk takes the NHL to court and gives his reasons, that he is bleeding money and you think a judge will side with the NHL to stop him why? The NHL does not trump actual laws. One of two things are happening. Either they are moving or the NHL would be forced to buy the Senators to keep them there. There is no way in hell a court of law is going to tell somebody that has business asset they can't relocate and have to continue to lose money. Oh, and you can take your "free education" petty shot back to Grade 3. Grow up.

Even in your hypothetical, the NHL could simply provide alternate locations if it didn’t want a franchise to move to Quebec (say, Houston or Kansas City). Melnyck cant simply pick a spot and say “that’s where I’m moving, fight me!”

And the free education thing wasn’t a shot, instead of ignoring everyone actually listen to some of the valuable information being presented. Or why even have a discussion?. But you’d deserve one, running around calling people obtuse and saying “I’m right you’re wrong! Stop talking!” like the 3rd graders you’re referencing.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You are not taking into account that this is a business and still applies to court law. So Melnyk applies for relocation, he cites poor attendance and loss of revenue that he believes he can make in QC. The NHL refuses why? They want teams to stay where they are? Great, Melnyk takes the NHL to court and gives his reasons, that he is bleeding money and you think a judge will side with the NHL to stop him why? The NHL does not trump actual laws. One of two things are happening. Either they are moving or the NHL would be forced to buy the Senators to keep them there. There is no way in hell a court of law is going to tell somebody that has business asset they can't relocate and have to continue to lose money. Oh, and you can take your "free education" petty shot back to Grade 3. Grow up.

Unless maybe they signed a contract that gave away that right.

You can't contract out of statutory law (if the statute says so, anyway). But Courts try to make contracts work. They bend over backwards to not override them. In all of these types of cases the onus is going to be on the owner who wants to move to prove that public policy weighs so much in their favour that their written and signed contract should not apply. What is the "actual law" which prevents a league from controlling the markets in which it operates? The cases you cite are based on anti-trust law, and that's hard to prove.

I can tell you that, while I haven't acted for an NHL franchise who wants to move, I have represented other franchisees, and it's tough sledding to fight the franchisor, even though there are Franchise laws in Ontario and Alberta which aim at protecting the "little guy".

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

The NBA has never seemed to me to be a league that cares about misplaced team names.

Utah Jazz
Los Angeles Lakers
Memphis Grizzlies

All relocations from cities where the name made sense.

So I guess Coyotes it is!

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

There is no way in hell a court of law is going to tell somebody that has business asset they can't relocate and have to continue to lose money.

Sure there is...if said business asset is a franchise.

[nickk382]

Hamilton Bulldogs, die hard fans there.