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Old 10-16-2020, 12:03 PM   #81
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LOL - naw, it was just the size of the thing.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:03 PM   #82
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Nothing really - it痴 a fair deal in a poor circumstance.

Mangiapane would have been a good bet on a longer-term deal, but this is a great value deal.

Tree has had a pretty solid off-season, but I think he made the exact same mistake with Tanev that he did with Neal and with Brouwer. Hoping I知 wrong.

I知 not that crotchety towards Tree as a whole, what I am crotchety towards is the weather is changing and my elbow is sore and I have a headache and I知 getting old and some fans are really underrating Andrew Mangiapane.
The difference between the Neal/Brouwer signings and the Tanev signing is that those two were brought in to be top 6 scoring forwards and neither guy could score anymore.

Tanev has been brought in to be a top 4 defensive defenseman. I don't foresee him being unable to fulfill that expectation.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:08 PM   #83
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When Mangiapane played his first ten games in Calgary I honestly thought he would never become a NHL player. It just goes to show that one shouldn't count young players out too early. I really like this deal for both sides.
This. I felt exactly the same way. He seemed to have very little poise and never really carried the puck with any confidence.

Amazing how things have changed for him.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:15 PM   #84
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This. I felt exactly the same way. He seemed to have very little poise and never really carried the puck with any confidence.

Amazing how things have changed for him.
The other side of that coin is how much Manguapane's success can affect my own expectations for other prospects. They are not all going to turn out like he has, but it is also difficult to restrain enthusiasm for some of the other Flames prospects who continue to flourish in the lower leagues.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:15 PM   #85
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Who cares really. They didn't buy into your and Wilson's belief, instead did the right thing. Not the wrong thing. Just like last year, tree wasn't going to budge on the QO for him. This year, no massive buy in.

If he becomes a top 6 like you and Wilson believe, theyll figure it out.
How can this be a right thing or wrong thing today?

If he puts up numbers for the next two years we will all wish they went longer term on this deal. If he slides back a bit the two year deal would have been a good call.

Won't know for 2 seasons.

I'm voting the former though. Chance missed to lock down a guy that seems like money to out perform that contract.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:18 PM   #86
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It's hard to argue with this contract but I wish we could have gotten him long term, assuming Mangiapane was willing.

He will be a very good player very quickly and it would have been nice to lock him in at a low price before he starts getting recognition.

At the same time, our cap space made this impossible. An unfortunate reality of the Brouwer/Neal/Stone mistakes.

And unfortunately, I wouldn't be totally surprised if the Tanev contract turned out to be another one of those mistakes.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:21 PM   #87
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Ultimately two years will probably be fine. Is Mangiapane going to turn into Viktor Arvidsson or is he going to peak as a Conor Sheary?

Right now there is a lot of reason for optimism, but it's also important to note that a lot of cap space is going to be freed up in two years.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:24 PM   #88
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All this talk about longer term deals...

Tell us what you think a long term deal would have looked like. I mean sure, I could sit here and say 6 years at $3M would have been great. But Mangiapane isn't signing that.

Let's here some reasonable proposals (because you are all going to be saying in two years "I said all along we should have given him a long term contract in 2020").

So tell us. Also, tell us how that would have been handled, cap-wise.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:24 PM   #89
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The flipside is we know Mangi likes to bet on himself. Maybe he wasn't interested in signing longterm for say another ~$1-1.5M more if he feels he can continue to put up big numbers given the chemistry he's found with Chucky and Backs.

I don't think I've seen any quote from Mangi or his agent about signing long term.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:25 PM   #90
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1317152669698412544
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:26 PM   #91
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How can this be a right thing or wrong thing today?

If he puts up numbers for the next two years we will all wish they went longer term on this deal. If he slides back a bit the two year deal would have been a good call.

Won't know for 2 seasons.

I'm voting the former though. Chance missed to lock down a guy that seems like money to out perform that contract.
It's right today because it fits into the team budget. And protects themselves against any potential failures to meet lofty expectations based on stat projections.

I think a few posters here think I hate mangiapane or something. I dont, I just don't buy into throwing a FAF type long term commitment to a player that needs more sample size.

So yeah, today's signing was the right move on all levels. And if he outperforms the deal then its bonus for everybody involved. Theres no loss here.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:26 PM   #92
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Smart move by Andrew. His strength isn’t his counting stats which only took off after Frolik left and the Backlund line got hot. It’s his advanced stats. And I’m not sure arbitrators look too hard at those.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:28 PM   #93
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How can this be a right thing or wrong thing today?

If he puts up numbers for the next two years we will all wish they went longer term on this deal. If he slides back a bit the two year deal would have been a good call.

Won't know for 2 seasons.

I'm voting the former though. Chance missed to lock down a guy that seems like money to out perform that contract.
Agree. I said this last time around and some posters didn't like my take, but I 100% believe in this kid. If you look at his history he consistently gets better every year at every level, regular season and playoffs. There is something about him where he has a consistent drive to be better.

I don't think he'll be a superstar by any stretch, but he's the type of player you can bank on longer term to out perform his current value. Of course, only time will tell.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:36 PM   #94
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And unfortunately, I wouldn't be totally surprised if the Tanev contract turned out to be another one of those mistakes.
I don't think many people will object to the idea that the Tanev contract is one year too long. I suspect the problem is that he wasn't signing here for a 3 year contract so the question becomes what would have been the alternative?

As for Mangiapane, I'd have signed for as long as possible but like Tkachuk last year, there is no room to do so.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:36 PM   #95
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Currently my favorite Flame.

He痴 been a solid #6 forward for us.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:36 PM   #96
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I think this is a contract that works for both Mangiapane and the Flames (obviously..). Mangiapane is in a good spot here in Calgary playing alongside Backlund who has a rather proven history of elevating players around him. He gets top 6 playing time and gets to play with a superstar in Tkachuk, and one of the NHL's top defensive centres in Backlund. Loads of opportunity there, and at best he falls down one line if the Flames acquire someone else for the top 6 (doubtful with the cap) or Dube takes a huge step forward (and they might still keep Dube on the 3rd line even if true, as long as both players stay productive in their spots). This is a good gamble to take for Mangiapane, as I do think he will out-perform his deal and then be in a better position to cash-in.


Flames win since their window is obviously in the next 2 seasons (given the contracts and make-up of the team). Doesn't force the team to jettison anyone, even Ryan, to try and be cap compliant. They improved huge in net, took a hit on Brodie vs Tanev (Tanev should still prove to be capable, however), and lost some important depth, especially on the PK.


Hopefully Treliving can find replacement PK'ers (and hopefully Ward can work with Robinson and get him to become one himself).



However, there is a downside.


Tkachuk is going to see a huge increase after his deal is up, and he will have all the leverage. Mangiapane looks like he will be in the same boat. Gaudreau's contract comes up. Giordano's contract comes up. Monahan's the year after. Those are all very important deals on core players. The core is not locked-up long term. Treliving is going to have to navigate the next off-seasons incredibly carefully.


Would have been a bit of a risk locking-up Mangiapane longer term if he didn't end up working out as well. Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess, but I would have liked to have seen a 4-5 year deal, but I also don't have a clue what numbers Mangiapane's camp was pushing to make that happen. Good for both sides right now. We will see what happens in 2 years.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:36 PM   #97
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It's right today because it fits into the team budget. And protects themselves against any potential failures to meet lofty expectations based on stat projections.

I think a few posters here think I hate mangiapane or something. I dont, I just don't buy into throwing a FAF type long term commitment to a player that needs more sample size.

So yeah, today's signing was the right move on all levels. And if he outperforms the deal then its bonus for everybody involved. Theres no loss here.
I just don't see the right and wrong.

If he busts out then it's the wrong move clearly, as making another million in space this summer would be much less expensive than giving him $5M or more per year on his next deal compared to say the $3.75M or so they may have gotten done on a five year deal this week.

And I'm not predicting or stating that as a fact.

It's just the risk of going shorter term.

If he takes a step back then it flips to the team having gotten it right. That's the bet.

There's no right and wrong today.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:37 PM   #98
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I felt like many/most people were expecting $2.75M or $3M AAV. So this is actually a good deal. It's also short term thus giving Mangiapane a chance to improve and prove he is worth a larger contract. This tells the players that the team is willing to pay them what they're worth.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:37 PM   #99
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Must say I'll be very pissed if Mangi switches from #88.

Top-tier number and he looks great in it.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:38 PM   #100
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Glad a deal is done. Hope he continues to exceed expectations.
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