American Politics Thread: The Hunt for Blue November

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

This about sums up Trump and his admin. Lying about lying. Rinse and repeat.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1303741461700186112

Calling Daniel Dale.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Eh, it's pretty hard to imagine there are many undecideds/soft supporters in this election. While this is of course terrible, it's not even remotely out of character for Trump. Not like someone was on the fence about Trump and then this revelation changes everything. GOP has been actively anti-science for 30+ years now, so it's not even out of character for the party as a whole.

Trump is selling rainbows and fluffy clouds to the American people. He is the ultimate salesman.

A lot of people want to believe stuff not based in reality. That is why many of us can't figure out why he still has support from some of the more moderate voters.

I also think the approach the Democrats and their media cohorts have taken is terrible. Yelling and screaming about Trump being a fascist dictator that will steal the election makes it seem like he is actually capable of something like that.

The only thing he has going for him is some of the foreign policies he has enacted. After that there is nothing. Like, his Presidency has nothing to show. This isn't the first time Woodword has done a reveal, but I agree, a lot of this information isn't new.

Trump really is the guy that has a 2 minute attention span and likes to go off and watch himself on TV while he eats cheeseburgers. I just think his political opponents haven't clued in to that and aren't taking it seriously enough.

I mean Joe Biden is the Democrat candidate. Seriously.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by photon

Not to mention making it so civilian deaths don't even have to be reported.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...-deaths-2019-3

"US President Donald Trump has signed an executive order ending the mandatory reporting of civilian deaths from US airstrikes outside combat zones."

Oh, so because Obama made it so that civilian deaths had to be reported, his massive use of drone strikes was okay?

Especially coming from a President that pretty much pledged during his entire candidacy and Presidency that he would bring the troops home but never did.

What did he call it? Hopes and dreams. That is exactly what is was.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Azure

Oh, so because Obama made it so that civilian deaths had to be reported, his massive use of drone strikes was okay?

Especially coming from a President that pretty much pledged during his entire candidacy and Presidency that he would bring the troops home but never did.

What did he call it? Hopes and dreams. That is exactly what is was.

I’m with you, let’s impeach Obama.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

I’m with you, let’s impeach Obama.

The point is that if any politician talks about ending these endless wars we should look at it in a positive light. It was a big reason Obama got elected. And then he completely reversed course and nobody gave a #####, especially not those on here who are completely incapable of an objective outlook.

Obama is also the President responsible for massively increasing JSOC, something Photon conveniently left out of the picture. I wonder if he told JSOC that they had to report civilian deaths.

Under President Obama, “JSOC became the counterterrorism policy–not just the implementers of it, but the policy itself,” Scahill said. “These are guys that are used to operating in the shadows with very little or minimal effective congressional oversight and they also have a streamlined pipe right to the commander-in-chief.”

Obama will "go down in history as the president who legitimized and systematized a process by which the United States asserts the right to conduct assassination operations around the world," says Jeremy Scahill.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/52100170/t...ow-war-terror/

Trump is obviously playing the election angle with the troop drawdown, but its actually hilarious how little people care about something this important. If Biden would do this it would be heralded as a massive win for the US and rightfully so.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Sorry folks, I'm with Azure on this one.

No one should be voting for Obama this November.

Mind you, I also believe no one should be voting Trump either.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Azure

Oh, so because Obama made it so that civilian deaths had to be reported, his massive use of drone strikes was okay?

Especially coming from a President that pretty much pledged during his entire candidacy and Presidency that he would bring the troops home but never did.

What did he call it? Hopes and dreams. That is exactly what is was.

The point is, and you have to be dense not to understand this, that you require an exit strategy and a way to exit without creating a power vacuum in the region. You just can't arbitrarily pull out troops and think that everything is going to be rosy. We see what happens when no fly zones are not enforced (mass killing of the Kurds). We see what happens when you lose control over provinces (the constitution of ISIS). We see it when you pull out of regions and do not counter existing forces in the region (Syria and Russian control, and eastern Iraq and Iran).

It will be interesting to see whether Trump has thought this through and has an exit strategy, or if this is just another rash move to try and get a bump in the polls. We will find out if chaos in Iraq ensues. But hey, what could possibly go wrong? It's not like Trump has a history with bad decisions costing human lives and hundreds of millions of dollars. Amiright?

[photon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Oh, so because Obama made it so that civilian deaths had to be reported, his massive use of drone strikes was okay?

You'll have to quote me because I must have totally forgot where I've said that.

One of the criticisms of drone strikes is they're easy and a different administration could use them even more. Which came true.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by New Era

The point is, and you have to be dense not to understand this, that you require an exit strategy and a way to exit without creating a power vacuum in the region. You just can't arbitrarily pull out troops and think that everything is going to be rosy. We see what happens when no fly zones are not enforced (mass killing of the Kurds). We see what happens when you lose control over provinces (the constitution of ISIS). We see it when you pull out of regions and do not counter existing forces in the region (Syria and Russian control, and eastern Iraq and Iran).

It will be interesting to see whether Trump has thought this through and has an exit strategy, or if this is just another rash move to try and get a bump in the polls. We will find out if chaos in Iraq ensues. But hey, what could possibly go wrong? It's not like Trump has a history with bad decisions costing human lives and hundreds of millions of dollars. Amiright?

And you have to pretty dense to not realize that they're not leaving completely, but instead are just drawing down troops, and even denser (shockingly) to not realize that regardless of the preparations that they make, there will be a mess afterwards. Its been a mess since they made it a mess in the 80s. Being there doesn't make it less of a mess. One would think such a vocal anti Neo-Con like yourself would understand that.

There is a reason that every single time there was a plan on the table to leave during the Obama administration, some general with ties to the military industrial campaign came along and had one more plan on the table to fix the problems for good.

On and on it has been going for 20 years.

[ResAlien]

So...what does that mean for now. Fine Obama was like THE WORST so what does that mean now for this Trump planless reduction in troops? Does it make it better? Worse? An excuse to whine about Obama? Where is this going.

War is bad. Occupation is bad. Military does military things. Got it.

[troutman]

Cohen is making the rounds on the talk shows on his book tour. 20 years ago his observations would have been fatal to a political candidate. Now, it barely registers as a ripple.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I think today's revelations about Trump purposely misleading the American public about the virus and playing it down will actually have impact on his re-election campaign.

Other revelations were mostly about Trump's character and him being a jerkoff (like what he said about US soldiers), but today's reveal has directly led to Americans not being as concerned about the virus as they could have been if it was more honest with his own assessment, directly leading to the death of Americans.

Am I being naive? Was there anything else comparable to today's reveal?

I dont believe it will hurt him. Everyone was downplaying the virus to not cause panic. Fauci at first said masks would do nothing because he didn't want people hoarding masks. WHO was a disaster. Heck people were already hoarding toilet paper remember?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...c-2020-7%3famp

[Azure]

Originally Posted by photon

You'll have to quote me because I must have totally forgot where I've said that.

One of the criticisms of drone strikes is they're easy and a different administration could use them even more. Which came true.

And one of the criticisms of the all the different candidates and Presidents in the past 20 years is that they've just continued doing what the previous one did, or did it worse. Obama worse than Bush, Trump worse than Obama.

Obama also turned JSOC into a killing machine that assassinated people all over the world without due process of any kind, including a complete lack of oversight. But, nobody gave a ##### unless independent media started making people aware of it, and even then nobody cared. Especially not the Democrats who many on here think are not completely bought and paid for by the lobbyists that yank their chains.

That was despite promising to bring home the troops, something he campaigned on.

And lets be clear, a drawdown in troop levels in a good thing.

My issue is that Trump now pledges to do a troop drawdown and not a single poster here can look at it and call it a move in a positive direction.

Like the Obama expansion on the war on terror, nobody gives a ##### because it makes their guy look bad.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Azure

And you have to pretty dense to not realize that they're not leaving completely, but instead are just drawing down troops, and even denser (shockingly) to not realize that regardless of the preparations that they make, there will be a mess afterwards. Its been a mess since they made it a mess in the 80s. Being there doesn't make it less of a mess. One would think such a vocal anti Neo-Con like yourself would understand that.

I am not following your logic. Obama was bad, because he drew troops down, but left enough behind to manage the security of Iraq? Trump is good because he is drawing troops down, and leaving some back to manage the security of Iraq? What is your ####ing point other than to obnoxiously point out what Trump is doing and no one is lauding him for something that is obviously a stunt to garner support for his re-election campaign?

There is a reason that every single time there was a plan on the table to leave during the Obama administration, some general with ties to the military industrial campaign came along and had one more plan on the table to fix the problems for good.

On and on it has been going for 20 years.

Again, what is your point???

[Azure]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

So...what does that mean for now. Fine Obama was like THE WORST so what does that mean now for this Trump planless reduction in troops? Does it make it better? Worse? An excuse to whine about Obama? Where is this going.

War is bad. Occupation is bad. Military does military things. Got it.

Uhhh, what? Trump is calling for troop drawdowns in Iraq and Afghanistan.

That is good.

Unless you seem to have some warped sense of reality where the US being caught up in those regions for another 20 years is suddenly good.

Oh, but because it is Trump maybe the troop drawdawn is now bad. But it was good up till now. See what the problem is?

Nobody is whining about Obama. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy around the whole idea.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

So...what does that mean for now. Fine Obama was like THE WORST so what does that mean now for this Trump planless reduction in troops? Does it make it better? Worse? An excuse to whine about Obama? Where is this going.

War is bad. Occupation is bad. Military does military things. Got it.

It's also worth mentioning that Iraq actually voted back in January to kick out the U.S. forces, at which time Trump threaten them with sanctions "the likes of which they have never seen", if they followed through. Which was followed by nationwide anti-U.S. protests in Iraq.

It's pretty clear that he doesn't have a master plan other than trying to score political points.

[Fuzz]

He's pretty good at "IDGAF about 'allies'"


https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...saster-898493/


I'm sure this will totally work out well for everyone involved, and there is no possible way Russia will benefit.

[RedHot25]

This is amazing.

I can't understand the point. Its going in circles, with contradictions and only one side arguments.

This must be what its like to brief Trump.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Azure

Uhhh, what? Trump is calling for troop drawdowns in Iraq and Afghanistan.

That is good.

It's good if the region is ready for a draw down. If it isn't, it is a tactical mistake. Pulling troops just to pull troops is a mistake. If this was planned by the military, then good on them for controlling the situation. But if this is just a stunt to get a positive bump in the polls, and it costs more American and civilian lives, then it is as evil as anyone can imagine. I want to hear the generals say this was a planned draw down. Until then I will remain skeptical.

[Azure]

Well RedHot is right, there is zero point in going around in more circles.

I think that the region is mess whether the US is there or not, and therefore the troops should be drawn down immediately.

Of course Trump will do it as an election stunt, just like any Democrat will, as shocking to some as that may be.