Thanks everyone for pushing my expectations down so low that I enjoyed the movie. It's by no means perfect but it is not as bad as everyone is making it out to be.
It's almost become a political thing with comic book and sci-fi movies. People have to hate on some movies and love other ones. It's quite bizarre.
Thanks everyone for pushing my expectations down so low that I enjoyed the movie. It's by no means perfect but it is not as bad as everyone is making it out to be.
I watched it this weekend, and thought the same thing.
In fact, if they'd just left Doomsday out completely and given Luthor a reduced role, and used the extra time for character development leading into Batman vs. Superman fight culminating in Batman defeating Superman and letting him live, the whole thing would have been totally fixable, if perhaps not the blockbuster epic that I'm sure the studio insisted it be. And it probably would've been ~20 minutes shorter.
In other words, with some relatively simple changes, you could have made this an actual Batman v Superman movie, instead of Batman v Superman feat. Lex Luthor and Wonder Woman and Doomsday, and it could have been pretty decent. It wasn't a total write off. More like a missed opportunity.
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I watched it this weekend, and thought the same thing.
In fact, if they'd just left Doomsday out completely and given Luthor a reduced role, and used the extra time for character development leading into Batman vs. Superman fight culminating in Batman defeating Superman and letting him live, the whole thing would have been totally fixable, if perhaps not the blockbuster epic that I'm sure the studio insisted it be. And it probably would've been ~20 minutes shorter.
In other words, with some relatively simple changes, you could have made this an actual Batman v Superman movie, instead of Batman v Superman feat. Lex Luthor and Wonder Woman and Doomsday, and it could have been pretty decent. It wasn't a total write off. More like a missed opportunity.
In other words: if they'd made a totally different film it would have been better.
I agree.
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It wouldn't be a totally different film, though. It would be the same first two hours, with some minor editing and a couple of added scenes. Then the last bit of the movie cut out completely. You'd barely require any additional filming.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
It wouldn't be a totally different film, though. It would be the same first two hours, with some minor editing and a couple of added scenes. Then the last bit of the movie cut out completely. You'd barely require any additional filming.
And removing both major villains.
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This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
I think you'd still have Luthor as the villain who's basically engineering the showdown between the two titular characters and manipulating Batman into trying to kill Superman. You just don't need all the stuff with him in the Kryptonian ship.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Another thing I really didn't like about the move was the style which was incredibly distracting. It was way too overwrought with the dramatic shots, slow motion, and heavy imagery. I felt I was watching a high budget music video without the music. Snyder kept cracking a whip to remind you about how "epic" everything was supposed to feel. It really brought you out of the experience. If you compare to Nolan's Batman movies which the first two at least are stylish when they need to be and restrained for the remainder you get the feeling that you have an egomaniacle filmmaker in Snyder who's using the superhero motif as a backdrop to remind you about his visual mastery. I found it really off-putting and again, a huge disservice to the source material. It felt like this movie was all about Snyder.
Gotta disagree on Doomsday, I had no idea he was going to be in the movie and loved it. But I had all the Superman comics from that period, which is probably why I was so excited when he showed up.
I know in some of the Marvel movies there's been characters who seemed awkwardly shoe'd in from my perspective that the internets were raving about, so perhaps it's just a matter of how much a nostalgic fan you are of that superhero in general, and how well you know the comics version of them and their universe.
For me, there's fan service and then there's making a movie that functions. The latter has to be the priority, and the former only included where it doesn't detract anything. Most of that stuff can be saved for the directors' cut, which the die-hards are going to buy anyway.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
I watched it this weekend, and thought the same thing.
In fact, if they'd just left Doomsday out completely and given Luthor a reduced role, and used the extra time for character development leading into Batman vs. Superman fight culminating in Batman defeating Superman and letting him live, the whole thing would have been totally fixable, if perhaps not the blockbuster epic that I'm sure the studio insisted it be. And it probably would've been ~20 minutes shorter.
In other words, with some relatively simple changes, you could have made this an actual Batman v Superman movie, instead of Batman v Superman feat. Lex Luthor and Wonder Woman and Doomsday, and it could have been pretty decent. It wasn't a total write off. More like a missed opportunity.
This is kind of exactly the reasons everyone was disappointed with it, particularly comic fans. They tried to cram some of the most iconic storylines into one film and it came off terribly. The worst part being: they can't do those storylines proper now, not in this universe anyways. They can't make a version of the Dark Knight Returns. They can't do The Death of Superman. Not how they could have been done anyways.
Most comic fans want to see those stories come to life, now we may have to wait a decade or so (or forever) to see something like that done. It's frustrating.
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Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
For me, there's fan service and then there's making a movie that functions. The latter has to be the priority, and the former only included where it doesn't detract anything. Most of that stuff can be saved for the directors' cut, which the die-hards are going to buy anyway.
They could have made 3 movies that functioned beautifully instead of one that barely did. Isn't this your complaint as well? The movie didn't function, it was a mess. The reason comic fans like those stories is because they're GOOD stories. It's not just because they're Superman and Batman stories. There are plenty of those that suck. This is one of them now.
This is kind of exactly the reasons everyone was disappointed with it, particularly comic fans. They tried to cram some of the most iconic storylines into one film and it came off terribly. The worst part being: they can't do those storylines proper now, not in this universe anyways. They can't make a version of the Dark Knight Returns. They can't do The Death of Superman. Not how they could have been done anyways.
Most comic fans want to see those stories come to life, now we may have to wait a decade or so (or forever) to see something like that done. It's frustrating.
They could have made 3 movies that functioned beautifully instead of one that barely did. Isn't this your complaint as well? The movie didn't function, it was a mess. The reason comic fans like those stories is because they're GOOD stories. It's not just because they're Superman and Batman stories. There are plenty of those that suck. This is one of them now.
Exactly this. They took top shelf source material and wiped their asses with it.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
This is kind of exactly the reasons everyone was disappointed with it, particularly comic fans. They tried to cram some of the most iconic storylines into one film and it came off terribly. The worst part being: they can't do those storylines proper now, not in this universe anyways. They can't make a version of the Dark Knight Returns. They can't do The Death of Superman. Not how they could have been done anyways.
I've seen the Dark Knight Returns animated so that's my source of knowledge for the plot but I don't see why they couldn't still do it. It would be at least three movies though - Batman vs gang, Batman vs Joker, Batman vs. Superman. I don't think they actually will but they could? I know nothing about the death of Superman other than it was Doomsday who killed him.
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They could have made 3 movies that functioned beautifully instead of one that barely did. Isn't this your complaint as well?
I was more just focused on what could have been done to make this movie function rather than making others. But cramming too much into it is definitely part of the problem, as is tradition with bad superhero movies. Studio execs seem to think that the more STUFF they can fit into 2 hours the better the movie will be.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
I've seen the Dark Knight Returns animated so that's my source of knowledge for the plot but I don't see why they couldn't still do it. It would be at least three movies though - Batman vs gang, Batman vs Joker, Batman vs. Superman. I don't think they actually will but they could? I know nothing about the death of Superman other than it was Doomsday who killed him.
TDKR animated movie is a pretty good adaptation. Pretty much frame-by-frame of the novel (although I'd still recommend).
The biggest reason they couldn't do it is the final battle with Superman and Batman. By using the armour and the fight and some attempt at the philosophical issues between the two (which they completely botched), that's why they can't do that storyline anymore. They took too much from it while making it into something different.
The trailers with Clark Kent wanting to take down the vigilante, and Wayne's concerns about Superman's potential destruction gave a little hope they'd do the subtext right, but those two short pieces of dialogue were pretty much where that conflict ended. And that really is the crux of their issues.
And the biggest thing from TDKR to take away (I actually haven't read Death of Superman either, not a big Superman guy) is that they don't end up actually agreeing. Batman beats him, not with force, but with brains. All through the canon Batman and Superman have this ongoing issue, and they tried to resolve it and make them besties by the end of the film. Even the idea that Batman would gather the Justice League is completely against character. Batman is supposed to hate the idea of a JL, be paranoid of the other members, and refuse to be a part of it.
I'm all for different interpretations and storylines, but if that's what you want to do then make it different. Don't pull things into the film that make no sense character-wise just so you can show Batman in the metal suit, or Doomsday because he's cool, while changing the best parts of why those things exist in the first place.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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TDKR animated movie is a pretty good adaptation. Pretty much frame-by-frame of the novel (although I'd still recommend).
The biggest reason they couldn't do it is the final battle with Superman and Batman. By using the armour and the fight and some attempt at the philosophical issues between the two (which they completely botched), that's why they can't do that storyline anymore. They took too much from it while making it into something different.
The trailers with Clark Kent wanting to take down the vigilante, and Wayne's concerns about Superman's potential destruction gave a little hope they'd do the subtext right, but those two short pieces of dialogue were pretty much where that conflict ended. And that really is the crux of their issues.
And the biggest thing from TDKR to take away (I actually haven't read Death of Superman either, not a big Superman guy) is that they don't end up actually agreeing. Batman beats him, not with force, but with brains. All through the canon Batman and Superman have this ongoing issue, and they tried to resolve it and make them besties by the end of the film. Even the idea that Batman would gather the Justice League is completely against character. Batman is supposed to hate the idea of a JL, be paranoid of the other members, and refuse to be a part of it.
I'm all for different interpretations and storylines, but if that's what you want to do then make it different. Don't pull things into the film that make no sense character-wise just so you can show Batman in the metal suit, or Doomsday because he's cool, while changing the best parts of why those things exist in the first place.
Looks like they're trying to turn Batman into Tony Stark, specifically RDJ's Tony Stark.
