2019 NFL Playoff Thread

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I can't wait for Brady to retire so Bellichick can coach an entirely new roster to a SuperBowl win...

In an alternate timeline Belichek wins the struggle with Kraft and wins two or three more Superbowls with Garoppolo at QB.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Cassel wasn’t a lousy QB; he went out and won the AFC West with Kansas City two seasons later with Todd Haley as coach, who is NOT Bill Belichick. Anyone who saw New England that year knows that Brady’s absence made the Pats a different team.

Oh for sure they were different, Brady is a top 5 all time QB and Matt Cassel is Matt Cassel, so that'll hurt you no doubt. Record-wise though, they were essentially the same. New England's system has shown they can roll through the loss of any one player to an astounding degree, there's no doubt in my mind they keep rolling after the loss of Brady if they can replace him with a competent starter.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Even Rogers himself agrees Brady is the GOAT.
from 2017 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...dy-is-the-goat


It is difficult to really say what happens when you reverse the situations, but based on what I have seen, Brady has elevated the team, has not put himself before others and has single handedly won games on his own.

Rogers is also awesome, and he had great teams to play for as well, but playing the "what if game" is simply a poor way to judge the GOAT because there is no way to know exactly what might or might not have been other than hypothesis. Brady actually won all these cups.

Put it to you another way, even if you swapped Belichick out for just last night Tom Brady has one less Super Bowl. Swap Brady out, put Brian Hoyer in there, with two weeks to plan, on a tightly scripted, extremely conservative plan, and the Pats still win last night (and maybe easier because they'd run more, where they were doing very well).

I'm not even saying Brady isn't the GOAT, I'm saying Belichick is FAR more clearly the greatest coach than Brady is the greatest QB. There's a debate with Brady whereas I don't think there can be one with Belichick.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Put it to you another way, even if you swapped Belichick out for just last night Tom Brady has one less Super Bowl. Swap Brady out, put Brian Hoyer in there, with two weeks to plan, on a tightly scripted, extremely conservative plan, and the Pats still win last night (and maybe easier because they'd run more, where they were doing very well).

I'm not even saying Brady isn't the GOAT, I'm saying Belichick is FAR more clearly the greatest coach than Brady is the greatest QB. There's a debate with Brady whereas I don't think there can be one with Belichick.

I wont agree, and dont disagree. It is pure speculation. There is simply no way to know for sure, and if I am betting Id rather have Brady then Hoyer or any other QB. Brady is like another O Coordinator and sees things other QBs dont.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Ok, but if you had Brady as QB last night with McDaniels as your head coach, he isn't scheming anywhere near well enough to hold the Rams to 3 points. I'd say the floor with McDaniels is 17 for the Rams, and you lose in that scenario. The irony of the Pats winning both Super Bowls against the Rams on Feb 3 also is ironic because those are by far Brady's two worst performances in the Super Bowl. With any other coach he's very likely 4-5 in the Super Bowl right now. But Belichick produced two masterful performances against two elite offenses instead.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Ok, but if you had Brady as QB last night with McDaniels as your head coach, he isn't scheming anywhere near well enough to hold the Rams to 3 points. I'd say the floor with McDaniels is 17 for the Rams, and you lose in that scenario. The irony of the Pats winning both Super Bowls against the Rams on Feb 3 also is ironic because those are by far Brady's two worst performances in the Super Bowl. With any other coach he's very likely 4-5 in the Super Bowl right now. But Belichick produced two masterful performances against two elite offenses instead.

I wont disagree that BB is the GOAT of coaches at all. He is a master planner and executioner, yet he couldnt beat the goddamned Giants!
What you say about other coaches is likely true, we simply dont know. Maybe if McDaniels is coaching, the Pats are leading by 17 at the half and its game over.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Cheese

I wont disagree that BB is the GOAT of coaches at all. He is a master planner and executioner, yet he couldnt beat the goddamned Giants!
What you say about other coaches is likely true, we simply dont know. Maybe if McDaniels is coaching, the Pats are leading by 17 at the half and its game over.

Because clearly Eli > Brady.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Because clearly Eli > Brady.

LOL. You can have Eli!

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Oh for sure they were different, Brady is a top 5 all time QB and Matt Cassel is Matt Cassel, so that'll hurt you no doubt. Record-wise though, they were essentially the same. New England's system has shown they can roll through the loss of any one player to an astounding degree, there's no doubt in my mind they keep rolling after the loss of Brady if they can replace him with a competent starter.

IF BB stays on as coach. Not sure that will happen.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Cheese

I wont disagree that BB is the GOAT of coaches at all. He is a master planner and executioner, yet he couldnt beat the goddamned Giants!
What you say about other coaches is likely true, we simply dont know. Maybe if McDaniels is coaching, the Pats are leading by 17 at the half and its game over.

How long has it been? 10 years? I still want to puke a little every time i'm reminded that Eli Lindros is 2-0 against Brady in the superbowl.
FU Eli!!

[trackercowe]

So because Phil won without MJ, and MJ couldn't win without Phil does that mean Jordan isn't the GOAT, and should only be considered top 5? If coaching is what wins games then the same should apply to every sport.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

So because Phil won without MJ, and MJ couldn't win without Phil does that mean Jordan isn't the GOAT, and should only be considered top 5? If coaching is what wins games then the same should apply to every sport.

Can you not type Phil Jackson? trying to figure out who MJ was on the Eagles last year.
I think Phil as a coach is overrated like Sather. Gulutzan would have won with the teams the Bulls and the Oilers had.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

It’s like Cowboys fans in the 90s. No big deal, when this ride ends and another team runs the 2020s that team’s bandwagon will fill up. Sure some of the diehards will remain but whatever it’s sports and that’s how fandom works.

To paraphrase their coach “we’re on to 2019-20”. Now let’s go find that offseason thread!

Or Seahawk "fans" who likely don't even know who Steve Largent is, just gravitate towards being a "12". far more of those around here than Pats fans.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

So because Phil won without MJ, and MJ couldn't win without Phil does that mean Jordan isn't the GOAT, and should only be considered top 5? If coaching is what wins games then the same should apply to every sport.

Coaching is not equal in all sports. Coaching matters far more in football because it's individual plays with time to prepare for each play. Imagine if they eliminated head set communication to the QB and defensive captain. Actually that'd be great, would make things far more interesting and chaotic.

[Erick Estrada]

I think Belichick is the greatest coach ever but it has to be noted that playing in the worst division in football over their career has helped a lot. Easy to get a home playoff date every year when you only have to be better than the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins who have all been perennially bad/mediocre.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I'm not even saying Brady isn't the GOAT, I'm saying Belichick is FAR more clearly the greatest coach than Brady is the greatest QB. There's a debate with Brady whereas I don't think there can be one with Belichick.

This is my feeling too. Brady is the GOAT, it's undeniable at this point, but I do think that Belichick deserves a lot of credit (as does Brady's own competitiveness).

I'm not sure any coach can replace Belichick with the rosters that he's had and could be as effective as they were. His cap management, game planning, and ability to build a team is unmatched.

However I feel like you could have replaced Brady with Brees or Manning and maybe they are the guys with 6 rings and 9 super bowl appearances.

Both are the best of all time but Brady has a couple of guys who maybe are close as peers, whereas Belichick is pretty much unmatched.

Really though both guys are amazing and the body of work is pretty impressive.

Overall 6-3 in Super Bowls.

XXXVI: Patriots 20 - Rams 17
Brady- 16/27 for 145 yards, 1 TD

XXXVIII: Patriots 32 - Panthers 29
Brady - 32/48 for 354 yards, 3 TD, 1 INT

XXXIX: Patriots 24 - Eagles 21
Brady: 22/33 for 236 yards, 2 TD

XLII: Giants 17 - Patriots 14
Brady: 29/48 for 266 yards, 1 TD

XLVI: Giants 21 - Patriots 17
Brady: 27/41 for 276 yards, 2 TD & 1 INT

XLIX: Patriots 28 - Seahawks 24
Brady: 37/50 for 328 yards, 4 TD & 2 INT

LI: Patriots 34 - Falcons 28
Brady: 43/62 for 466 yards, 2 TD & 1 INT

LII: Eagles 41 - Patriots 33
Brady: 28/48 for 505 yards, 3 TD

LIII: Patriots 13 - Rams 3
Brady: 21/35 for 262 yards, 1 INT

Overall Brady is 6-3 in the super bowl with 18 TD, 6 INT, 2838 passing yards, and a 65.3% completion percentage.

The sample size is big enough that you can pro-rate that to a season.

Super Bowl Brady would be a pretty good regular season for most QBs (super bowl stats pro-rated to a 16 game season):

32 TD
10 INT
5045 Passing Yards (11th most in a regular season ever)

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I still can’t believe the Patriots lost to the Giants...twice. Blowing that perfect season is and always will be unforgivable.

[chummer]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I still can’t believe the Patriots lost to the Giants...twice. Blowing that perfect season is and always will be unforgivable.

I still can't believe the Seahawks lost to the Patriots.

Kind of evens out.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think Belichick is the greatest coach ever but it has to be noted that playing in the worst division in football over their career has helped a lot. Easy to get a home playoff date every year when you only have to be better than the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins who have all been perennially bad/mediocre.

My annual reminder, which you will ignore:

The Pats have a better record against the rest of the NFL than they do against the AFC East.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I still can’t believe the Patriots lost to the Giants...twice. Blowing that perfect season is and always will be unforgivable.

But never forgotten.