XBone Vs PS4 Vs PC - VIDEOGAME POLITICS THUNDERDOME - PS4:900p-XBone:720p-PC::smug:

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I want to play Halo 5 and Gears so why are they forcing me to buy a kinect when I can't stand motion controls and will never use it

Well, I guess customers are asking the same thing. And the free market is responding by the obvious difference in sales numbers.

I do recall an analyst (Patchter?) postulating that Microsoft might not actually be able remove Kinect from the console in the near term (the first year or two) due to contractual obligations with the suppliers they signed up with. No idea if that is true but that might have an effect on what they do at E3. I can't imagine Microsoft not cutting the price by a substantial margin with Kinect or not.

Originally Posted by Diemenz

Someone is almost getting banned?

I hope not. This "thunderdome" thread isn't hardcore like Neogaf. You have to privately source rumors or "insider" information to mods or you get the ban hammer. And they swing that hammer for other minor crap like nobody's business.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

Someone is almost getting banned?

from torquedog

"well I'm not about to get myself banned for calling it what it really is, so choose your favourite negative, vulgar adjective and that's what the comparison is"

thats what I was referring to, he is reacting to me comparing kinect sports rivals with wii sports...like pretty much every gaming publication/website has already done. Guy loves him some kinect

[chemgear]

Oh, I forgot to link this image that somebody on neogaf summarized (again, note the "sales to retailers" = shipped not sold numbers). Historical note, I believe the 360 was severely supply constrained when it launched. Part of it being rushed out and their red ring issues.:



With the 2.8 million PS4's sold versus the 1.2 million Xbone shipped to retailers, it is not unreasonable that the current pace of actual sales to consumers is roughly 3:1 right now. If the pace of the Xbone sales continues to decline, that ratio could be even larger by the time E3 hits.

Regardless, it's certainly not as bad as the Wii U.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by dino7c

yeah but sony didn't force you to buy it a launch if you wanted it or not...I want to play Halo 5 and Gears so why are they forcing me to buy a kinect when I can't stand motion controls and will never use it

Sony nearly did with the PS4. Had they included the camera as they initially planned, it would have essentially been like packing a move with every system. Business wise? I'd say fantastic decision to keep the price low. In terms of progressing Move? It hurts Move quite a bit in my mind (or at least how Move exists today). I'm sure there are more than a few devs that would love to create a Move enabled game, but there just isn't enough of them in the wild to make it worth while.

While Kinect isn't my type of thing, it's at least feasible that developers will be more willing to bake-in kinect functionality into their game knowing that 100% of One users already have it (assuming MS don't rip it out). We've yet to see this, but it could happen.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

It really doesn't matter how totally awesome the Kinect is -- hardcore gamers have moved on from motion controls (and it's arguable how much they ever really cared in the first place) while casual gamers have left the console scene almost entirely.

Hardcore gamers never accepted motion control so I find it curious that you think they moved on. Microsoft is trying to take it places that Nintendo didn't and right now they aren't there but as has been said there's probably going to be some interesting stuff mid to end of the generation. That's not helping them today but somebody has to innovate or nothing's going to change outside of resolution. I'm not a motion gamer guy but I'm always open to innovations that make the experience better.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by chemgear

But even Major Nelson doesn't use/disconnects Kinect.

His was probably broken - like mine - by one of the internal beta updates. That was a long two weeks without it.

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Again, the Xbox is a gaming device and you are in the video game politics thread. None of those things have been practically implemented in a gaming product so it's really not relevant.

The Xbox is an entertainment device which is more all-encompassing than just video games, so your point is moot.

dino7c: I'm reacting to you comparing the Wii with the Kinect, not comparing Wii Sports vs KSR. The tech is not the same, not even remotely. That's why your comparo is insipid.

I'm a technology nerd, I like innovation. Kinect doesn't do enough for you with games? BFD, just use the controller. I'm looking at the bigger picture, I want to see where this technology takes us as it matures. And the best way to improve the technology? Have a bunch of people use it and improve it based upon feedback. Shocking concept, isn't it? Kinect will improve as time goes on, just as both consoles will ultimately improve as developers learn to extract more and more performance out of them. Erick Estrada is bang on.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

The Xbox is an entertainment device which is more all-encompassing than just video games

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2014/04/2...s-its-tv-slate

Original programming coming to the platform too, and it sounds pretty good. Some bigtime talent being mentioned (Speilberg, Ridley Scott, Neil Blomkamp). A lot of the concepts for the shows sound really interesting.
I look forward to seeing what they do with Halo, the soccer show Every Street United (featuring Thierry Henry and Edgar Davids), and the broadcast of the Bonnaroo festival.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

His was probably broken - like mine - by one of the internal beta updates. That was a long two weeks without it.

The Xbox is an entertainment device which is more all-encompassing than just video games, so your point is moot.

dino7c: I'm reacting to you comparing the Wii with the Kinect, not comparing Wii Sports vs KSR. The tech is not the same, not even remotely. That's why your comparo is insipid.

I'm a technology nerd, I like innovation. Kinect doesn't do enough for you with games? BFD, just use the controller. I'm looking at the bigger picture, I want to see where this technology takes us as it matures. And the best way to improve the technology? Have a bunch of people use it and improve it based upon feedback. Shocking concept, isn't it? Kinect will improve as time goes on, just as both consoles will ultimately improve as developers learn to extract more and more performance out of them. Erick Estrada is bang on.

thats nice except they are forcing me to buy a kinect...nobody is buying a $500 console for "original programming" that will also be on the xbox

Kinect wouldn't even exist without the Wii, comparison is valid and my original point is there is too much focus on Kinect at microsoft, xbox has gone downhill big time since the original kinect was released...look at the 1st party games since that time. The last year of the 360 was kinect based mini game collections

2010-2013 Microsoft basically forgot about gamers and made kinect games, PS3 gained major market share during that time and it has transferred over to next gen

Sony 56 non-motion exclusives Microsoft had 12! that is when I changed my preference as have many others and the sales numbers back it up

[19Yzerman19]

Originally Posted by TjRhythmic

I'm one of those people that can't stand playing with a keyboard and mouse...

From 97 to '06 or so, I played EA Sports NHL on the PC rather than a console. And I always used the keyboard. Once I could play online I'd do so with a keyboard and everyone was always baffled that I could play decently without using a controller.

I honestly don't even understand how people FPS without a mouse. I was never that good at FPS but I'm useless with a controller at it.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by Russic

Sony nearly did with the PS4. Had they included the camera as they initially planned, it would have essentially been like packing a move with every system. Business wise? I'd say fantastic decision to keep the price low. In terms of progressing Move? It hurts Move quite a bit in my mind (or at least how Move exists today). I'm sure there are more than a few devs that would love to create a Move enabled game, but there just isn't enough of them in the wild to make it worth while.

The demand for the Playstation camera was overwhelming for Sony at first. It could also be in part the low supply again but people were searching high and low for it initially. There was an appetite for it at first but it's little more than a fun little mini game toy and for Just dance now.

[TorqueDog]

Thanks for shrinking your image down.

Anyway, I don't see how you can blame Microsoft for "forgetting about gamers"... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kinect_games Try sorting by the publisher. Microsoft Studios is a small piece of that list. Blame your favourite game publishers/developers. And clearly with the number of games released, they didn't "forget about gamers", they forgot about you.

Originally Posted by dino7c

thats nice except they are forcing me to buy a kinect...nobody is buying a $500 console for "original programming" that will also be on the xbox

No one is forcing you to buy a Kinect. You're buying an Xbox One; every Xbox One includes a Kinect. Get over it. [shrug] Having been forced to live without a Kinect for two weeks due to a software bug after having it since launch, it feels like stepping back in time five years.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Thanks for shrinking your image down.

Anyway, I don't see how you can blame Microsoft for "forgetting about gamers"... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kinect_games Try sorting by the publisher. Microsoft Studios is a small piece of that list. Blame your favourite game publishers/developers. And clearly with the number of games released, they didn't "forget about gamers", they forgot about you.

No one is forcing you to buy a Kinect. You're buying an Xbox One; every Xbox One includes a Kinect. Get over it. [shrug] Having been forced to live without a Kinect for two weeks due to a software bug after having it since launch, it feels like stepping back in time five years.

actually I'm not buying an xbox one at all, like many other people that is why they are being outsold so badly...it doesn't "include" Kinect you are paying more for inferior hardware because it includes it. Microsoft has OBVIOUSLY lost market share in the gaming space and I think the focus on Kinect is the main reason. I dont care who the publisher is all I know that in the last 3 years xbox owners had little to play other than the waggle games while on Sony people were playing games like the last of us

lets just agree to disagree here, we could go on all day. You obviously love the Kinect and I hope you have a good time with whatever it is your are doing with it.

[strombad]

Really, who cares about Kinect?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by strombad

Really, who cares about Kinect?

TorqueDog

[McG]

I'm quite amused by people that don't have an Xbox one or kinect telling people that do have one about how terrible it is. it has been pointed out numerous times in this thread that Kinect 2 is more than a mere motion controller. I would guess that many people who have an Xbox one love the Kinect and many people that have one don't; what's the big deal? I personally think it is great and I love the convenience of voice control. how people with a completely different console are experts on a device they don't own is mind "bottling" to me.

As for sales of games, Kinect adventures sold 24 million copies as part of a bundle at $150 each; that's $3.6 billion in sales. why wouldn't they make a sequel?

Peripherals that come and go? Guitar hero, rock band, karaoke revolution, dance dance, rocksmith. those that like them still play them and for others they gather dust. what's the big deal?

I chuckled out loud at the criticism from the "hard core gamers" on this thread. you do realize that parents and kids play Kinect alot right? and forgetting about Kinect, that they play together on either platform? and that lots of parents don't buy M rated games for their kids? and that if either company can find the games that are family friendly they will sell a ton?

I'll say one thing though; Sony fanboys better keep buying the console and games to keep the company solvent.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by McG

I'm quite amused by people that don't have an Xbox one or kinect telling people that do have one about how terrible it is. it has been pointed out numerous times in this thread that Kinect 2 is more than a mere motion controller. I would guess that many people who have an Xbox one love the Kinect and many people that have one don't; what's the big deal? I personally think it is great and I love the convenience of voice control. how people with a completely different console are experts on a device they don't own is very interesting to me.

As for sales of games, Kinect adventures sold 24 million copies as part of a bundle at $150 each; that's $3.6 billion in sales. why wouldn't they make a sequel?

Peripherals that come and go? Guitar hero, rock band, karaoke revolution, dance dance, rocksmith. those that like them still play them and for others they gather dust. what's the big deal?

I chuckled out loud at the criticism from the "hard core gamers" on this thread. you do realize that parents and kids play Kinect alot right? and forgetting about Kinect, that they play together on either platform? and that lots of parents don't buy M rated games for their kids? and that if either company can find the games that are family friendly they will sell a ton?

I'll say one thing though; Sony fanboys better keep buying the console and games to keep the company solvent.

obvious fanboy calling others fanboys, enlighten me...what are you doing with your kinect that makes it worth $100 and inferior hardware?

voice controls? because you don't need a camera for that

facts are facts ps4 is selling better, I think its because of a better price/not forcing peripherals that is all I am saying

[McG]

Originally Posted by dino7c

obvious fanboy calling others fanboys, enlighten me...what are you doing with your kinect that makes it worth $100 and inferior hardware?

voice controls? because you don't need a camera for that

facts are facts ps4 is selling better, I think its because of a better price/not forcing peripherals that is all I am saying

fanboy calling fanboy? sure...i'll bite. I'm an early adopter and while I don't have the new Kinect game, I did and still play alot with my kids on the 360.

please show me, other than the obvious loot jibe, where I have attacked the ps4? I don't have one and wouldn't be qualified to describe the experience or the games. many on this thread seem to have an ability to comment on a console they don't own. when people have both, I appreciate their unique and qualified perspective.

What is the difference between a remote control and getting up to change the channel? what is the difference between voice control and remote? they all work. it is different and for $100 as an early adopter it is ok for me; maybe not for others. I like "Xbox snap TV" with my voice so I can watch sports and play a game at the same time by using my voice. I wouldn't pay $100 for that but it is an example of the experience.

I'd like to know why you care about the Kinect? you don't like it, you don't want it, if Sony had one you wouldn't buy it, and yet you refuse to either listen or ignore when people tell you that they like it and it adds value to their experience.

As for superior hardware, are there enough quality experiences to say that ps4 users have benefited? you know that the 1080 versus 720 resolution doesn't matter on a 65 inch screen beyond 10 feet? I expect that some ps4 exclusives will be stunning; I also expect some xbox1 exclusives to be just as stunning. and the games in common will be similar enough.

If you really want to convince people about how good the ps4 is, and get a person like me interested in buying one, then tell me just how kick arse the ps4 games are instead of why in your opinion the xbox1 sucks. after all, ps4 is all about games right?

Edit: oops sorry forgot to comment on sales. yes, I think that ps4 has sold more consoles to date in more territories based upon all that I have seen. I don't think that there is a debate there today. if the percentage gap remains over the duration of a number of years, I would expect Microsoft to launch a similar architecture but more robust machine because they will have missed targets. if however the gap remains an empirical one, then over the years it will be relatively equal. I think xbox1 owners and ps4 owners worry about the gap in sales and a potential insolvency about the same; it is there for both but no one is losing sleep over it.

[bubbsy]

as a person still waiting on making my next gen purchase, i cautiously follow these debates. However, for me, exclusive games mean nothing, as i don't play many such games.

My primary concern is more about how the same game, primarily sports games (nhl/madden/fifa) and the odd venture into something globally popular (GTA, Assassin's creed), compare on either platform.

I also think that the kinect gets a lot of hate, i was never a fan of it on the old gen, nor did it appeal to me as a must-purchase for the next gen, but considering this gen should last for a decade, and there's gotta be more interactive evolution, be it audio/video or something else. Furthermore, i expect the kid(s) to grow into having interest in playing some of the kinect stuff.

[dino7c]

PS4 has more raw horse power so multiplats should run better for the most part and have to this point. I have no problem with people who enjoy the Kinect, I just don't think it was a smart move to force it on people at a higher price.

PS4 is selling better and does have more horsepower and a lower price (fact)

everyone can use their best guess as to why, I think Microsoft should offer more choice. And to be totally honest I have 3 young kids that would rather use a controller to play mario on wii u or skylanders than wave their arms and dance around

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I just don't think it was a smart move to force it on people at a higher price.

Yep, it's the reason I don't have one yet. The only way I'm getting an Xbox One at $500 is if they offer a free game that I want that isn't Titanfall.