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Old 02-09-2019, 03:41 PM   #121
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Just becuse Kyle Dubarrelli got worked on an RFA contract doesn't mean BT and the flames have to. The nylander contract was a complete cave and Matthews camp must be thrilled with what they got. One million less per year than McDavid with three less years on the term is a joke. As others have mentioned let's see what the marketplace looks like when smartly run teams like the Hets sign their big tickets.
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Old 02-10-2019, 10:18 AM   #122
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If he keeps playing like he has lately he’ll be lucky to get more than Gaudreau. I absolutely think there is a 3+ million difference between Matthews and him. He doesn’t play center, he doesn’t PK, he’s a poor skater, he doesn’t take faceoffs and he is not anywhere close on 5v5 numbers. I expect in negotiations that Treliving will hammer that he got so many points on the pp and really didn’t take a big step forward anywhere else. Only way I see him getting over 8 million is if they go for a 7+ year contract.
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:15 PM   #123
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For a player this season who can't skate and is apparently crap with 5 on 5 numbers, not even being on the 1st line, 57 points in 55 games seems pretty amazing to me. What I would argue on his side are also the intangibles he brings - disturber extraordinare. That's gotta be worth a few extra mil.
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:23 PM   #124
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never understood the "cant skate" argument. Tavares isnt a speedster but has done ok. Maybe we should bring Matthew Lombardi out of retirement then if speed is everything.
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:12 PM   #125
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never understood the "cant skate" argument. Tavares isnt a speedster but has done ok. Maybe we should bring Matthew Lombardi out of retirement then if speed is everything.
Tavares is actually a pretty good skater as he's worked on it hard and it's improved a lot since he broke into the league. Tkachuk's skating is pretty mediocre as he's not much of a factor on the rush and while it can improve I don't think he's ever going to be a guy that's part of a good transition game. If he decides he's going to hold out for big money I hope Treliving doesn't cave in as I don't think he's a true franchise player and more of a complimentary guy. It's still Gaudreau that moves the needle for this team and no other forward comes close and I think the GM needs to ensure he has enough money to entice Johnny to remain a Flame at the end of his current deal.

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Old 02-10-2019, 01:30 PM   #126
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never understood the "cant skate" argument. Tavares isnt a speedster but has done ok. Maybe we should bring Matthew Lombardi out of retirement then if speed is everything.
Itís not everything. It is one thing, an important thing, a thing that Tkachuk does not do especially well, and a thing that Treliving will undoubtedly work into his negotiation.


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Old 02-10-2019, 01:54 PM   #127
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Itís not everything. It is one thing, an important thing, a thing that Tkachuk does not do especially well, and a thing that Treliving will undoubtedly work into his negotiation.


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Fair enough but if a player who isnt a great skater is valuable and puts up points, then the fact he isnt a great skater isnt that big a deal, not every player is a great skater. Pulijarvi is a better skater but seems to lack hockey sense, therefore the skating is somewhat negated. regardless i am sure that will come up in negotiations.
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:17 PM   #128
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Fair enough but if a player who isnt a great skater is valuable and puts up points, then the fact he isnt a great skater isnt that big a deal, not every player is a great skater. Pulijarvi is a better skater but seems to lack hockey sense, therefore the skating is somewhat negated. regardless i am sure that will come up in negotiations.

I'd argue its still one of the more important physical skills to have, especially since the speed of the game has never been faster.


It directly relates to your ability to reach the puck first, to maintain control when others are leaning and pushing on you, and most importantly for most coaches your ability to have a 200 foot game and get back defensively on a rush.


Don't get me wrong he's a great player, but he's got plenty of places to improve his game still, and his skating has always been one of his weaker points.


Also in my opinion, he's gonna be compared and paid in relation to this teams franchise player, not some other teams. I don't think Tre is the kind of guy who lets other GM's dictate his contacts, those teams are going to be unable to maintain their rosters in the coming years at the rate they are going.
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:19 PM   #129
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Fair enough but if a player who isnt a great skater is valuable and puts up points, then the fact he isnt a great skater isnt that big a deal, not every player is a great skater. Pulijarvi is a better skater but seems to lack hockey sense, therefore the skating is somewhat negated. regardless i am sure that will come up in negotiations.
Skating is something that can be improved upon. IQ is a more difficult thing to work on, you kind of either have it or you don't.

I think what people are saying is that his skating hasn't seemed to improve since entering the league so its natural to question whether or not he's been working on improving faults in his game, especially in the context of contract negotiation.
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:42 PM   #130
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Tkachuk isn't fast but he isn't a poor skater. In fact he is extremely strong on his skates, particularly for his age, which is why he is so effective in board battles and staying in front of the net.

Its certainly nothing that he will get hammered on in contract negotiations.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:05 PM   #131
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Off topic but I’m not sure who coughs the puck up more lately. Smith stickhandling or Tkachuk with his blind between the legs backward passes. Probably Tkachuk because he plays every game.

Gotta add it to the Flames Bingo card, or ‘drink whenever ___ ‘
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:19 PM   #132
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Tkachuk is playing himself out of a prime payday. Sure he has 57 points, but he has turned ice cold. I think our fav whipping boy, Neal has more points in the last 5 games.
And the turnovers are just brutal.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:52 AM   #133
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I think this contract may have a big effect on the 27plus age group. Teams are realizing the cost of young players after their entry level contract expires. They will either fall in the bridge, prove to me your worth it, or if elite into the Mathews level. But it seems , with cap restrictions, something has to give and that is players last contract pushing them into the mid 30s.


Historically, that is their big contract, but who wants to keep buying out contracts for players in the decline, when they are up against cap hell. Mathews shorter contract, means they are younger to start that final contract and I bet the term on those will start to go down.
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:23 AM   #134
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I'd argue its still one of the more important physical skills to have, especially since the speed of the game has never been faster.


It directly relates to your ability to reach the puck first, to maintain control when others are leaning and pushing on you, and most importantly for most coaches your ability to have a 200 foot game and get back defensively on a rush.


Don't get me wrong he's a great player, but he's got plenty of places to improve his game still, and his skating has always been one of his weaker points.
Happy Gilmore would agree.
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:50 AM   #135
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When you look at the big RFAs being talked about - Marner, Point, Rantanen, Laine*, Aho - those guys are elite difference-makers. They can make a line go by themselves. They make the players around them better.

I'm not sure you can say the same about Tkachuk. I love him as a player, and what he brings to the team. But he's more of a support player than a dynamic centerpiece. He has the hockey IQ and the hands to play with elite players, but he hasn't show he can generate offence at a high level playing with less talented linemates. He hasn't been able to turn the Backlund line into a dangerous scoring threat playing with guys like Frolik, Bennett, and Neal at RW.

So I see him somewhere between that upper echelon of RFAs and a Connor, Meier, or Boeser. A young core piece with good skills and production, but who isn't a centerpiece who drives play.

* Actually, you could make an argument (and Jets management certainly will) that Laine is a pretty one-dimensional player and doesn't deserve to be paid like a Rantanen or Point.
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:57 AM   #136
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When you look at the big RFAs being talked about - Marner, Point, Rantanen, Laine*, Aho - those guys are elite difference-makers. They can make a line go by themselves. They make the players around them better.

I'm not sure you can say the same about Tkachuk. I love him as a player, and what he brings to the team. But he's more of a support player than a dynamic centerpiece. He has the hockey IQ and the hands to play with elite players, but he hasn't show he can generate offence at a high level playing with less talented linemates. He hasn't been able to turn the Backlund line into a dangerous scoring threat playing with guys like Frolik, Bennett, and Neal at RW.

So I see him somewhere between that upper echelon of RFAs and a Connor, Meier, or Boeser. A young core piece with good skills and production, but who isn't a centerpiece who drives play.

* Actually, you could make an argument (and Jets management certainly will) that Laine is a pretty one-dimensional player and doesn't deserve to be paid like a Rantanen or Point.

The issue is all of those guys get lots of icetime with top line players. Tkachuk's camp will be able to point to his production with the powerplay to illustrate that he is that type of game breaking forward.

Rantannen is playing 20-22 minutes a game.

Aho played almost 25 minutes last night.

marner is playing 19-20.

Point fluctuates but that's because tampa

Tkachuk has hit 18 minutes twice in his last 5 games.
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:07 AM   #137
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The issue is all of those guys get lots of icetime with top line players. Tkachuk's camp will be able to point to his production with the powerplay to illustrate that he is that type of game breaking forward.

Rantannen is playing 20-22 minutes a game.

Aho played almost 25 minutes last night.

marner is playing 19-20.

Point fluctuates but that's because tampa

Tkachuk has hit 18 minutes twice in his last 5 games.
And management counters that Tkachuk doesn't kill penalties because he's not a strong skater (I'm surprised he gets as much ice time 3 on 3 as he does).
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:37 AM   #138
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And management counters that Tkachuk doesn't kill penalties because he's not a strong skater (I'm surprised he gets as much ice time 3 on 3 as he does).
huh?

Tkachuk plays as much on the PK per game as Rantanen or Point
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:16 AM   #139
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Probably not a popular opinion but I would consider signing Tkachuk to a bridge contract. 3 years @ 5.5M/year.

Allows us to keep basically the entire team together for the next three years and make a hard push in that time. We'd have enough cap space to get another impact player or two as well (if we trade someone like Frolik).

Make a decision on Brodie and Hamonic in a two years. Capitalize on the few good years Gio has left and when our forward core are in their prime.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:20 AM   #140
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Probably not a popular opinion but I would consider signing Tkachuk to a bridge contract. 3 years @ 5.5M/year.

Allows us to keep basically the entire team together for the next three years and make a hard push in that time. We'd have enough cap space to get another impact player or two as well (if we trade someone like Frolik).

Make a decision on Brodie and Hamonic in a two years. Capitalize on the few good years Gio has left and when our forward core are in their prime.
it is a good point. if flames management thinks the next 2-3 years is their best possible window for a cup, retain as much budget flexibility as you can and go for it.
let the chips fall where they may after that.
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