2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Ya and when you do it begs the question as to why he framed the end question in that way. It should be ‘do you trade Huberdeau for a signed Panarin’, not a chance at signing Panarin. They don’t do the deal if he isn’t signed, and I doubt Panarin signs any deal right now when he’s this close to free agency. You’re right, context does matter.

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Then why the end sentence? That's context right there.

Geez, so picky.

Sorry, I wrote that before I had my coffee. I thought it was pretty understandable from what I wrote previously.

Even if Panarin is signed as part of the deal I have to think carefully before pulling the trigger. Obviously Huberdeau's salary going the other way helps, and it opens up a spot for Panarin on Barkov's wing, but I just don't know if this trade moves the needle that much for a Panthers team that can't keep the puck out of the net.

Plus, I doubt Panarin agrees to anything other than an overvalue contract since he seems very interested in seeing what he can get on the open market. I don't blame him, but it means that Tallon isn't going to get him cheap. Not sure I love that idea, but perhaps it makes sense if you don't think you can win a bidding war in the summer.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DomeFoam

Yes, a 36 year old Jarome Iginla got that deal done, just a touch different than 26 year old Mark Stone.

Ottawa is laughing at that proposal and taking any of the five other offers on the table.

I've never understood the conviction of ridiculing a made up proposal.

Every year is different
Every player is different
Every situation is different
Every GM has a different talent level

Stone won't come free, but we can't possibly know what the final deal price will be to the successful team.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Sure someone said that, but a year later he was traded for a second round pick and then two years after that he was exposed in the expansion draft... a year after that he was exposed in the expansion draft again. The question could be asked if it was fair value...

Not sure what any of this has to do with anything.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Ultimately if the Flames shop a package around our 1st, Dube, and a roster player like Frolik I think that puts them in the mix for a higher end rental. When looking at rentals that command a 1at they typically include a 1st pick, prospect with a very high likelyhood of playing in the NHL and another piece be it a young fringe player or useful vet.

Agreed, I just dont believe that Tre would do that for a rental though.

That package would be pretty enticing to a lot of clubs at the draft too, which is where i expect his next big deal to occur when he has much more information to work with in regards to his team. a team that he hasn't seen in the playoffs before so he has no idea who or what might need shoring up.

Goaltending has to be creeping onto the radar as something that may have to be looked at as of late, but a long way to go and he will want to see how BSD reacts as things get tighter and tighter. His best value deals for that position will most certainly be over the summer and not on Feb. 25th. If he blows all his assets on a winger now...this club could be looking at the same weaknesses again next year with no way to really fix it once again.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Agreed, I just dont believe that Tre would do that for a rental though.

That package would be pretty enticing to a lot of clubs at the draft too, which is where i expect his next big deal to occur when he has much more information to work with in regards to his team. a team that he hasn't seen in the playoffs before so he has no idea who or what might need shoring up.

Goaltending has to be creeping onto the radar as something that may have to be looked at as of late, but a long way to go and he will want to see how BSD reacts as things get tighter and tighter. His best value deals for that position will most certainly be over the summer and not on Feb. 25th. If he blows all his assets on a winger now...this club could be looking at the same weaknesses again next year with no way to really fix it once again.

Definitely some good points.

I think if the Flames move their 1st in a rental deal they will go hard at trying to keep that player. They just might be able to do that with Stone but that assumes Rittich is the number 1 moving forward and costs around $3M and other contracts are shed to re-sign Tkachuk and Stone.

Let’s say that Dube, Frolik, 1st package lands the Flames Stone at the deadline. I am almost positive the Sens will try and force a conditional pick in any Stone/Duchene deal that nets them a future asset if the team is able to keep the player.

[Cheese]

Treliving has already said..and very clearly. He will not move the first or top prospects for a rental.

With Stone, is he considered a rental or a trade and sign? No way they trade that first without some kind of agreement that they can first sign him, and second, ensure that the player can be fit under the cap structure.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think if the Flames move their 1st in a rental deal they will go hard at trying to keep that player. They just might be able to do that with Stone but that assumes Rittich is the number 1 moving forward and costs around $3M and other contracts are shed to re-sign Tkachuk and Stone.

So its ridiculous to suggest that the Flames make a deal where they have guarantees that a player they are moving a highly prized asset for is signed to a contract, but your propose the Flames should have guarantees that the player they are moving multiple assets for is going to sign an extension?

Let’s say that Dube, Frolik, 1st package lands the Flames Stone at the deadline. I am almost positive the Sens will try and force a conditional pick in any Stone/Duchene deal that nets them a future asset if the team is able to keep the player.

A few things on this one.

1st, Frolik is the very type of player teams are trying to bring in for the post season run, not shed. Why would the Flames want to dump Frolik at this time?

2nd, why would the Senators have interest in Frolik? What hole does he fill on their team? How does he move the team forward? Save the "salary cap basement" argument, as there are better options out there where the Senators can get additional assets for eating a salary if they so desire. Arizona has done it multiple times for example. Frolik is a bad fit in this scenario, other than Calgary wants to get rid of him.

3rd, the Flames are packaging their best non-NHL forward asset and their 1st rounder for a guy that may only play for the team for ~30-40 games. Is that wise? I see the suggestion of a secondary "conditional" pick to cover Ottawa's risk if Stone signs an extension, but why not make sure you have that in place before you commit all those assets to the deal in the first place? If Stone doesn't want to be here long term, don't make the deal at all. Keep your powder dry and make a deal that improves the team long term.

I am fully behind giving to get, but you have to make sure you get before you give. You also have to make sure that you remove as much uncertainty from the mix as you can, so that means being certain you have all the salaries in a structure that makes sense prior to pulling the trigger on a deal this big. You crapped all over the idea of making a real hockey trade, but that was one where all uncertainty was removed, and the uncertainty that existed was shipped to the Sens to deal with. Or did the uncertainty aspect not compute?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Frolik's salary next year is $3,000,000. A pretty reasonable salary for someone who's been a regular 40 point player (outside of last year). His 4.3M cap-hit might cause other teams to be wary, but a team that doesn't care about the cap and only actual money, 3M for a stop-gap middle six forward during a rebuild doesn't seem that prohibitive.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Frolik's salary next year is $3,000,000. A pretty reasonable salary for someone who's been a regular 40 point player (outside of last year). His 4.3M cap-hit might cause other teams to be wary, but a team that doesn't care about the cap and only actual money, 3M for a stop-gap middle six forward during a rebuild doesn't seem that prohibitive.

Perfect for the senators who may be looking at having to acquire cap hits to reach the floor next year.

They may have trouble being cap compliant if stone Duchene and dzingel all end up being traded/walking away.

Perfect landing spot for Michael Stone at the deadline and frolik at the draft.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by New Era

So its ridiculous to suggest that the Flames make a deal where they have guarantees that a player they are moving a highly prized asset for is signed to a contract, but your propose the Flames should have guarantees that the player they are moving multiple assets for is going to sign an extension?


A few things on this one.

1st, Frolik is the very type of player teams are trying to bring in for the post season run, not shed. Why would the Flames want to dump Frolik at this time?

2nd, why would the Senators have interest in Frolik? What hole does he fill on their team? How does he move the team forward? Save the "salary cap basement" argument, as there are better options out there where the Senators can get additional assets for eating a salary if they so desire. Arizona has done it multiple times for example. Frolik is a bad fit in this scenario, other than Calgary wants to get rid of him.

3rd, the Flames are packaging their best non-NHL forward asset and their 1st rounder for a guy that may only play for the team for ~30-40 games. Is that wise? I see the suggestion of a secondary "conditional" pick to cover Ottawa's risk if Stone signs an extension, but why not make sure you have that in place before you commit all those assets to the deal in the first place? If Stone doesn't want to be here long term, don't make the deal at all. Keep your powder dry and make a deal that improves the team long term.

I am fully behind giving to get, but you have to make sure you get before you give. You also have to make sure that you remove as much uncertainty from the mix as you can, so that means being certain you have all the salaries in a structure that makes sense prior to pulling the trigger on a deal this big. You crapped all over the idea of making a real hockey trade, but that was one where all uncertainty was removed, and the uncertainty that existed was shipped to the Sens to deal with. Or did the uncertainty aspect not compute?

Because Vinnys deal contains significantly less assets then what you offered which reflects the fact that Stone is an upcoming UFA and there are zero guarantees that you will sign him. What you pitched was something that absolutely did not reflect the actual situation the senators are in. It’s fine to have the opinion that that is not a deal you would do, but then to turn around and come up with a preposterous and unrealistic deal and nay say everyone else’s much more realistic suggestions is what you are getting criticized for. Stone will likely be moved for a 1st round pick and a b prospect with some conditional picks thrown in. Whether the Flames should be in on that is worth debating. I personally would absolutely be in on it but I understand the concerns from the other side.

And I completely disagree that Frolik is a player the senators wouldn’t want. 1 year left at low cash and a higher cap hit and a good veteran presence for a rebuild. Sure, he’d be more desirable for a playoff team but if he’s part of a deal for Mark Stone then that is fine by me. Same goes for Sam Bennett.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by New Era

1st, Frolik is the very type of player teams are trying to bring in for the post season run, not shed. Why would the Flames want to dump Frolik at this time?

They tend to bring them in at the deadline when they are on expiring contracts.

Flames might dump him know as it would be harder than dumping him during the summer when they might need the cap space.

I'm not saying the Flames will/should trade him, just pointing out the reasons why they might do so.

[CanucksWorstNightmare]

With Corey Crawford ready to return to the Hawks lineup and Collin Delia signing a three-year contract extension could Cam Ward be our goalie upgrade??He has been playing really well lately for the hawks and is a free agent at the end of the year.I would imagine it wouldn't cost a bunch to acquire him and he is a couple years younger then Smith.What do you guys think??

[Toonage]

Edit: NM, I'm mistaken

[CanucksWorstNightmare]

Or would Chicago be willing to trade Crawford with 1 year left on his deal? He has had some concussion issues the last couple years but when healthy he would be an upgrade for sure.

[CanucksWorstNightmare]

Toonage check it out:

Corey Crawford (concussion) practiced fully on Monday.
"I feel great," Crawford said. "Back to normal. It's nice to get on the ice and practice with everyone. I'm feeling good, so that's the most important thing right now." There's no timeline set in stone yet for his return, but Crawford hopes to be back as soon as possible. There will be no rush, though, as Chicago will be cautious with him given his concussion history. The team has also been getting great goaltending from Cam Ward and Collin during a seven-game win streak.

SOURCE: NBC Sports Chicago
Feb 11, 2019, 2:52 PM

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Because Vinnys deal contains significantly less assets then what you offered which reflects the fact that Stone is an upcoming UFA and there are zero guarantees that you will sign him.

It does? Vinny's deal has NO guarantees of an extension. My deal GUARANTEED the extension of both players before the consummation of the deal. So Vinny's deal is likely good assets thrown away for 30 games of a player. My proposal was to have three players added at positions of need, and all with term. MASSIVE difference. My suggestion was to move a promising young player for three guys in their prime, two of which would be signed with term, and two guys that would provide more up front than what we were giving up. I can't believe that this is being overlooked; the actual outcome provides us another top line player AND a second line player AND a depth defenseman - with term!

What you pitched was something that absolutely did not reflect the actual situation the senators are in. It’s fine to have the opinion that that is not a deal you would do, but then to turn around and come up with a preposterous and unrealistic deal and nay say everyone else’s much more realistic suggestions is what you are getting criticized for.

Why is expecting an agreement on a contract extension unrealistic? This happens quite often. A deal is made, then the contract extension is announce a day or two later. The contract is usually agreed to long before the trade is done, especially for good assets. This is no different.

Stone will likely be moved for a 1st round pick and a b prospect with some conditional picks thrown in. Whether the Flames should be in on that is worth debating. I personally would absolutely be in on it but I understand the concerns from the other side.

And the Flames have stated, quite clearly, they will not move those assets for a short term add. Any assets will be moved only when they have a commitment from the player. Seems that is exactly what I've been saying.

And I completely disagree that Frolik is a player the senators wouldn’t want. 1 year left at low cash and a higher cap hit and a good veteran presence for a rebuild. Sure, he’d be more desirable for a playoff team but if he’s part of a deal for Mark Stone then that is fine by me. Same goes for Sam Bennett.

We'll have to disagree on that. I don't see Frolik being a good fit for Ottawa. They should be focusing on futures, and Frolik is definitely not a future player. If they grab him, they should flip him.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by New Era

So its ridiculous to suggest that the Flames make a deal where they have guarantees that a player they are moving a highly prized asset for is signed to a contract, but your propose the Flames should have guarantees that the player they are moving multiple assets for is going to sign an extension?


A few things on this one.

1st, Frolik is the very type of player teams are trying to bring in for the post season run, not shed. Why would the Flames want to dump Frolik at this time?

2nd, why would the Senators have interest in Frolik? What hole does he fill on their team? How does he move the team forward? Save the "salary cap basement" argument, as there are better options out there where the Senators can get additional assets for eating a salary if they so desire. Arizona has done it multiple times for example. Frolik is a bad fit in this scenario, other than Calgary wants to get rid of him.

3rd, the Flames are packaging their best non-NHL forward asset and their 1st rounder for a guy that may only play for the team for ~30-40 games. Is that wise? I see the suggestion of a secondary "conditional" pick to cover Ottawa's risk if Stone signs an extension, but why not make sure you have that in place before you commit all those assets to the deal in the first place? If Stone doesn't want to be here long term, don't make the deal at all. Keep your powder dry and make a deal that improves the team long term.

I am fully behind giving to get, but you have to make sure you get before you give. You also have to make sure that you remove as much uncertainty from the mix as you can, so that means being certain you have all the salaries in a structure that makes sense prior to pulling the trigger on a deal this big. You crapped all over the idea of making a real hockey trade, but that was one where all uncertainty was removed, and the uncertainty that existed was shipped to the Sens to deal with. Or did the uncertainty aspect not compute?

The Flames will not get a guarantee that Stone is going to sign here they roll the dice if they think they can keep him it may be enough to make the deal. One thing that is being ignored here is the fact that Stone is going to want to sign with any team when he is mere months away from getting to pick his team and likely name his price. The way I see it is if the Flames get Stone they will use a package of picks and prospects to do it and may have to cough up an additional high quality draft asset if they can sign the player. Similar to what the Sharks did with Kane or the conditional 5th the Flames sent to the totes when Mike Stone was retained.


Frolik is being replaced in this hypothetical scenario and he has made public noise about his lack of playing time so he makes sense to be the warm body/contract that moves. He is far from useless though so he could provide some value to Ottawa in the short term and also be flipped for assets before his contract expires. He is a $4.3M hit that is owed $3M in money next year. Perfect type of deal that helps the Sens hit the cap floor.

Arizona took Boedker on as opposed to getting a 2nd from a team in conference for Hoffman. It is almost a lock that Melnyk would push Dorian to trade Stone to the west which eliminates many other suitors. There is a pick attached to the Karlsson trade that has the condition met if the Sharks trade Karlsson back east before the deadline. Melnyk has come out and stated that he plans to spend and rebuild quickly so Frolik is a fit short term and a very traceable asset in a years time.

The Flames are taking a risk without the assurance but really when do deadline rentals agree to be signed immediately let along 2 in the same deal? If you give me the option of Stone or Tkachuk on my team at the same money and term it is easily Tkachuk for me no hesitation.

Hockey trades don’t happen with rental players. Like I mentioned earlier if we are in a similar unfortunate situation in Johnny’s contract year we will not have the ability to acquire a slam dunk core piece and we would be looking at a collection of picks and prospects. If the Sens want the type of return you suggest which is a similar player 5.5 years younger with more upside they would of had to make this trade in the summer when the team acquiring had the potential to get a long term deal in place.

Trading for Stone today is not a hockey trade. The Flames pulled off a huge hockey trade last summer with the Canes but trading for a pending free agent happens every year and the currency is picks/prospects/warm bodies not ppg pending RFA’s on the cusp of superstardom. If Stone was a RFA or was in year 2 of a 6 year deal and requested a trade it is a different situation (even then no to trading Tkachuk for him) but we are faced with a team moving a pending ufa because they can’t sign him which means he is in the discount bin

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by CanucksWorstNightmare

Toonage check it out:

Corey Crawford (concussion) practiced fully on Monday.
"I feel great," Crawford said. "Back to normal. It's nice to get on the ice and practice with everyone. I'm feeling good, so that's the most important thing right now." There's no timeline set in stone yet for his return, but Crawford hopes to be back as soon as possible. There will be no rush, though, as Chicago will be cautious with him given his concussion history. The team has also been getting great goaltending from Cam Ward and Collin during a seven-game win streak.

SOURCE: NBC Sports Chicago
Feb 11, 2019, 2:52 PM

Color me surprised...i had read just a couple weeks ago that his future was very much in question.

Good to hear though, no one should have to walk away because of injury.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by CanucksWorstNightmare

With Corey Crawford ready to return to the Hawks lineup and Collin Delia signing a three-year contract extension could Cam Ward be our goalie upgrade??He has been playing really well lately for the hawks and is a free agent at the end of the year.I would imagine it wouldn't cost a bunch to acquire him and he is a couple years younger then Smith.What do you guys think??

Ward is not a very good goalie, although better than Smith.

With Crawford potentially being iffy for the rest of the season (career?), its doubtful that Chicago moves Ward with them suddenly back in a potential playoff spot.

When Crawford comes back, Delia will go back to Rockford and wait for Crawford to get injured again. I assume Delia will be the back up next season.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by CanucksWorstNightmare

Toonage check it out:

Corey Crawford (concussion) practiced fully on Monday.
"I feel great," Crawford said. "Back to normal. It's nice to get on the ice and practice with everyone. I'm feeling good, so that's the most important thing right now." There's no timeline set in stone yet for his return, but Crawford hopes to be back as soon as possible. There will be no rush, though, as Chicago will be cautious with him given his concussion history. The team has also been getting great goaltending from Cam Ward and Collin during a seven-game win streak.

SOURCE: NBC Sports Chicago
Feb 11, 2019, 2:52 PM

Yeah I had a look through some tweets from Mark Lazerus as well and found some statements I was unaware of. I last checked in on this several days ago and it was still limited time on ice.