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Old 02-10-2019, 01:53 PM   #9421
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Originally Posted by GranteedEV View Post
This is simply false and infuenced by your own personal biases against Bennett.



Tkachuk - Backlund - Bennett have spent 169.98 together 5v5 and in that time have 10 goals.



This is a rate of 3.53 Goals/60 minutes



In the last three seasons, here is a list of lines on the Flames to log at least 160 minutes and post a G/60 of 3.5 or better over that span:



Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm - 4.1

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland - 3.58

Tkachuk-Backlund-Bennett - 3.53



Let's look at other teams:



Edmonton:

McDavid-Hopkins-Rattie - 4.61

Maroon-McDavid-Draisaitl - 3.61



Tampa

Gourde-Point-Johnson - 3.96

Palat-Point-Johnson - 3.95

Johnson-Point-Kucherov - 3.92

Namestnikov-Stamkos-Kucherov - 3.82

Palat-Point-Kucherov - 3.51



Boston

Marchand-Krejci-Pastrnak - 4.43

Marchand-Nash-Pastrnak - 4.23



Washington

Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Wilson - 3.76

Vrana-Kuznetsov-Wilson - 3.70



Dallas

Benn-Seguin-Radulov - 3.87

Benn-Spezza-Seguin - 3.61



Need I go on?



Their "glaring lack of production" as a line has essentially been first line production.

So then please remind me, why are they not together then? If they’re as good as a line as you think they are, then why aren’t they still together? Why have they not spent more than 169 minutes together?

I see it the same ways Peters does. The 3M line works, it’s worked in the past, they generate a lot of zone time, they control the play and there’s chemistry that’s very noticeable from the second they skate together.

Lastly, I don’t have biases against Bennett. Any criticism that I had was to those who had ridiculously grandiose expectations that he could never live up to. I just saw him for exactly what he was and what I thought he’d become, a winger with a bull dog mentality who needs to play a physical, north-south game and chip in with 20-25 goals one day.


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Old 02-10-2019, 03:07 PM   #9422
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Bennett is on a line with Jankowski and Neal to get those guys going. It's working.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:29 PM   #9423
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Bennett is on a line with Jankowski and Neal to get those guys going. It's working.
I would rather see Ryan in the middle of this line. I think he has a little more play making ability and could get Neal the puck in good spots.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:46 PM   #9424
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Hehe it’s interesting to see how much the talk of Jankowski being better than Backlund and that he should be the number two center has been dropped.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:55 PM   #9425
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Hehe it’s interesting to see how much the talk of Jankowski being better than Backlund and that he should be the number two center has been dropped.
It’s intersting I do not remember that discussion ever really happening on these boards.
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Old 02-10-2019, 04:02 PM   #9426
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Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
Bennett is on a line with Jankowski and Neal to get those guys going. It's working.


That’s what’s leftover by default. Ryan is a center and can drive his own line. Hathaway and Mangiapane ideally should not slot on the 3rd line. The 2nd line was the most important line to get going because of the immense impact on winning and losing. Winning this match up most nights gives the Flames a great chance to win most nights because of how good the top line is.

Pretty much every right winger on the team has made their way there. Czarnik, Neal, Bennett, Lindholm, Frolik and etc. The open wing position was a basically a revolving door of players for a while there until Frolik finally stabilized it.


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Old 02-10-2019, 04:14 PM   #9427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV View Post
This is simply false and infuenced by your own personal biases against Bennett.

Tkachuk - Backlund - Bennett have spent 169.98 together 5v5 and in that time have 10 goals.

This is a rate of 3.53 Goals/60 minutes
Where did you get that? Corsica has 162 minutes five on five and 8 goals ... 2.94

With Frolik they have 14 goals in 209 minutes and a higher five on five rate.

I think Bennett helps them create more, but they don't finish with Bennett, lately they're not even creating with Frolik.
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Old 02-10-2019, 04:25 PM   #9428
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It’s intersting I do not remember that discussion ever really happening on these boards.
It happened around the time of that two goal game against Arizona. Whenever he has a good game people jump on the bandwagon of his potential. Ofc since then he hasn’t done much. But he sure is a tantalizing player to many here. You can say the same thing about Bennett but at least Sam when he’s not scoring influences the game more.
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Old 02-10-2019, 04:41 PM   #9429
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Originally Posted by Kasi View Post
It happened around the time of that two goal game against Arizona. Whenever he has a good game people jump on the bandwagon of his potential. Ofc since then he hasn’t done much. But he sure is a tantalizing player to many here. You can say the same thing about Bennett but at least Sam when he’s not scoring influences the game more.
It's interesting that it wasn't that long ago it was Jankowski needing the promotion as Ryan was floundering.

Flames are getting good production from their bottom lines at the moment. 93-77-18 are developing some real chemistry with 88-10-21 providing good grit and timely scoring. I'd leave them alone.

Derek Ryan has six points in his last seven and...
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I would rather see Ryan in the middle of this line. I think he has a little more play making ability and could get Neal the puck in good spots.
...Mark Jankowski has three points (two goals) in his last five.

Back to Kasi's post.
Quote:
You can say the same thing about Bennett but at least Sam when he’s not scoring influences the game mor
Have you not seen Jankowski on the PK? He's probably our most effective PK'er outside of Lindholm in the forward rank. Better than Ryan and even Backlund this season IMO. Mark is 2nd for PK ice time per game (albeit slightly over Ryan, ten seconds over Backlund.).

The Flames have some issues at the moment but the bottom two lines aren't it. Smith is Smith and Rittich is having a rough patch. Treliving needs to focus most of his attention on goaltending IMO.
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:31 PM   #9430
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Sure Jankowski is a good PKer. But I don’t think the drop between him and the next forward to step in is that big. And in the end his ice time there is likely 2-3 minutes a game. Bennett on the other hand drives play 5-5 and brings a physical edge to this team that almost no one else does.
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:10 PM   #9431
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I don't see the point in discussing Sigalet and blaming him for the troubles in net. What does he have to work with? People like to say that goalies in Calgary haven't gotten better under his coaching, but that's just flat out wrong. What evidence do I have of this? You have to try hard NOT to look, actually.


David Rittich.


Is there a single poster on this forum that thinks David Rittich hasn't improved since he was signed? Can anyone claim that Rittich has basically plateaued since arriving in North America, or even since last season? I swear, Sigalet must have eaten your puppies for lunch and now you hate him.


Want another? How about Ramo? There was that article that Sigalet helped him with his game and got him back on track. When he was recalled from Stockton after that 'three headed monster' season, he was lights-out and the Flames were working their way back to the playoffs right up until he got injured.


Maybe.. just maybe... the Flames have had trouble finding good goalies? Maybe their prospects didn't work out because they just weren't that good? Most teams' other goalie prospects don't work out either, FYI.


I just find it a bit perplexing that people point at the goalie coaching position with an accusatory finger and say "That's the problem!", especially when we ALL are seeing David Rittich taking that big step this season.
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:35 PM   #9432
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I don't see the point in discussing Sigalet and blaming him for the troubles in net. What does he have to work with? People like to say that goalies in Calgary haven't gotten better under his coaching, but that's just flat out wrong. What evidence do I have of this? You have to try hard NOT to look, actually.
So this is an old argument. If BT gave Sigalet Patrick Roy, then Sigalet would be a great coach. By that same measure, if GG had Gretzky on his team then GG would still be a head coach.

It's seemingly chicken & the egg.

Has BSD improved - yes. But, he is 1 of 11 goalies Sigalet has had to work with. Isn't Sigalet's job to get the most out of his players? Some feel that Flames Management sees that Sigalet has done the best he could with what was given him, which is why he is still around.

Others, like me, feel that this coach can't spot or correct issues and seemingly has no plan.

This is one area where I think they need an older, playoff tested, recently retired NHL goalie. Some perspective, ideas, guidance from someone who has been in the trenches (Turco, Osgoode, Giguare). Smith is not that guy mainly because he may still think he is playing for a contract.

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Old 02-10-2019, 06:59 PM   #9433
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Blaming Sigalet for the crappiness of our goalies is like blaming the life skills/work skills resource room teacher for not making the kids with intellectual disabilities hit the honor roll.
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:04 PM   #9434
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^ So you have on one hand Rittich, who is developing and doing well so far, and Ramo, on whom the team cut bait when he was injured. Those are your success stories.

I will give you three proven NHL goalies who have gotten worse. Much worse.

In 3 consecutive years, Hiller, Elliott and Smith were all incoming as proven NHL goalies, who fell off the cliff under his watchful tutelage. He shouldn’t be questioned? Especially as all three guys seemed to be increasingly subject to mental errors, bad things creeping in to their game, and stoppable shots all of a sudden being unstoppable. It’s not like it’s just one guy.

Hiller never had a sv % below .910 before joining the Flames. Then at age 33, fell off a cliff. Got in a funk under Sigalet, let in softies early and couldn’t get out of that funk.
Elliott. Still putting up a serviceable .910 ish sv%, he is a NHL goalie. Somehow his confidence ended up being shot here, resulting in the brutal goals allowed during the playoffs. After the previous playoffs putting up a .921 and making the third round. So he went from clutch one year to letting in a squeaker from the half boards
Smith - very good the first half of last year, now arguably the worst goalie in the league with his workload

All three of these guys got in to funks under Sigalet that they couldn’t get their way out of under Sigalet. Punctuated by allowing some specific really, really bad goals, right through them, at very bad times, that are stoppable. That is alarming!

Seriously, how can you deny seeing that commonality?!!

Go ahead, find me another team that broke 3 goalies in 3 years.

You could argue that he is like veteran goalie poison.

If I’m a teacher, one student in my class passes, and most flunk, tough to look at the one student and say I’m a great teacher.

I don’t think you can rant at people questioning Sigalet. Telling them that the evidence of his success is right in front of their faces, because his failures are quite evident.

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Old 02-10-2019, 07:10 PM   #9435
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Blaming Sigalet for the crappiness of our goalies is like blaming the life skills/work skills resource room teacher for not making the kids with intellectual disabilities hit the honor roll.
Then why blame Dave Cameron for last years bad special teams?
Why blame GG for last years collapse?
Is Peters the reason Johnny is having a great year? Did GG not utilize him properly?

Questions we don't have answers to - What is Sigalet's responsible for? and How is his success measured?

If his responsibility is to keep the goalies on an even keel regardless of what happens, then ok. If his responsibility is to help them improve and get better, identify weaknesses and correct them, then you've gotta wonder.

Again, not every goalie he has worked with was crap. and yes, not every goalie he worked with was the second coming of Roy. It seems a little odd that every goalie he has coached has flailed here and then gone on to nothing. How many times can you point to the goalie and not the coach.
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:51 PM   #9436
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The hell is going on in this thread.
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:11 PM   #9437
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icon57 Artemi Panarin and the Flames?

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Matt Porter of the Boston Globe: The asking price for Artemi Panarin is reportedly a first-round pick, a player and a prospect – a high price for a potential rental.

The Boston Bruins aren’t the only team that is interested. Other teams that have been linked to Panarin include the Nashville Predators, Tampa Bay Lightning, Toronto Maple Leafs, Calgary Flames, Winnipeg Jets and the New York Islanders.

The Bruins could look to pay less for:

Carolina Hurricanes – Micheal Ferland
Philadelphia Flyers – Wayne Simmonds
New York Rangers – Kevin Hayes, Jimmy Vesey and Chris Kreider.
New Jersey Devils – Kyle Palmieri or Marcus Johansson
Minnesota Wild – Charlie Coyle
Anaheim Ducks – Jakob Silfverberg and Rickard Rakell
Los Angeles Kings – Tyler Toffoli, Carl Hagelin and Ilya Kovalchuk
https://mynhltraderumors.com/nhl-rum...gs/2019/02/10/
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:11 PM   #9438
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The hell is going on in this thread.


No trade rumours, and Stajan and Brouwer are long gone, so it’s a referendum on Bennett, Jankowski, and Sigalet. What else would it be?
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:15 PM   #9439
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My brother is a.sens fan and we were just talking trades. A lot of the crap we talked about was just crazy but ultimately we both agreed that a deal around janko, frolik and a first for stone and dzingle. We talked about adding smith and nilsson and maybe a prospect to even it out but I really think there's a deal to be made and I'd be willing to let janko and a first go as long as they took Frolik.
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:21 PM   #9440
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My brother is a.sens fan and we were just talking trades. A lot of the crap we talked about was just crazy but ultimately we both agreed that a deal around janko, frolik and a first for stone and dzingle. We talked about adding smith and nilsson and maybe a prospect to even it out but I really think there's a deal to be made and I'd be willing to let janko and a first go as long as they took Frolik.
Everybody would trade Jankowski and a first for Smith. I'm guessing your brother is a closet flames fan?
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