Personal injury legal advice?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by blankall

Most municipalities, including Calgary, have bylaws in place that make business and residential owners responsible for clearing snow on sidewalks.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...oval-1.4472100

But the bylaw doesn't equal liability.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

But the bylaw doesn't equal liability.

Yes it can. Bylaws are used to show what the reasonable standard is in a negligence case. Also I edited my post and the Occupiers Liability Act applies. Statute overrules common law.

[DionTheDman]

Sorry, no, that's not correct. The OLA applies to property for which you are responsible. Specifically, either property you are in physical possession of, or property which you have "responsibility for, and control over, the condition of premises, the activities conducted on those premises and the persons allowed to enter those premises". The municipality would be the entity which has possession and control over the sidewalk, not the property owner adjacent.

Hence the example I gave of someone falling on a sidewalk leading to the front door. That would in all likelihood be on the hotel's private property, not the municipality's.

In a nutshell, the OLA does not apply to municipal sidewalks.

The MGA is the likely governing and relevant statute.

Also, bylaws do not show what a reasonable standard might be. Negligence is a common law tort, not a creature of statute. The bylaw does not have anything to do with a claim in negligence. It is just that -- a bylaw which imposes a duty on a property owner to maintain the sidewalk adjacent to their property. Failing to do so may result in a fine, but in most cases, cannot result in a claim in negligence. That is, barring some unusual circumstances, such as a burst pipe on the hotel property causing water to flow onto the sidewalk and freezing, for example.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by blankall

Yes it can. Bylaws are used to show what the reasonable standard is in a negligence case. Also I edited my post and the Occupiers Liability Act applies. Statute overrules common law.

That act is for the property you own or occupy. Not the public land around it. I think. But that's how it reads to me. The case you cited seems like they're talking about the sidewalk and or parking lot belonging to the business property.


Bylaws seem like a suggested norm but not a hard and fast legally binding object. For instance, the article I referenced showed that clearing the sidewalk actually made it more slippery.


Beat me to it so never mind.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Sorry, no, that's not correct. The OLA applies to property for which you are responsible. Specifically, either property you are in physical possession of, or property which you have "responsibility for, and control over, the condition of premises, the activities conducted on those premises and the persons allowed to enter those premises". The municipality would be the entity which has possession and control over the sidewalk, not the property owner adjacent.

Hence the example I gave of someone falling on a sidewalk leading to the front door. That would in all likelihood be on the hotel's private property, not the municipality's.

In a nutshell, the OLA does not apply to municipal sidewalks.

The MGA is the likely governing and relevant statute.

Also, bylaws do not show what a reasonable standard might be. Negligence is a common law tort, not a creature of statute. The bylaw does not have anything to do with a claim in negligence. It is just that -- a bylaw which imposes a duty on a property owner to maintain the sidewalk adjacent to their property. Failing to do so may result in a fine, but in most cases, cannot result in a claim in negligence. That is, barring some unusual circumstances, such as a burst pipe on the hotel property causing water to flow onto the sidewalk and freezing, for example.

If you have a business that is encouraging people to come in via a sidewalk directly outside your business, you are responsible for the sidewalk.

You are responsible to the people who use your business, not just for the business, if that makes sense.

Listen, people sue all the time for slipping on sidewalks. The process is simple. Hire a lawyer. They will write a letter to the business. If the business can show they were reasonably taking care of the sidewalk there is no lawsuit. If the business was cutting corners there is a lawsuit.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by blankall

If you have a business that is encouraging people to come in via a sidewalk directly outside your business, you are responsible for the sidewalk.

I think I read somewhere that if you put signs out on the sidewalk or display goods outside in public space then you could be responsible for the sidewalk. Is that what you mean? In the case you provided as an example, the business was found not liable but it's unclear whether the sidewalk was part of their property or public. It just says in front of the building.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I think I read somewhere that if you put signs out on the sidewalk or display goods outside in public space then you could be responsible for the sidewalk. Is that what you mean? In the case you provided as an example, the business was found not liable but it's unclear whether the sidewalk was part of their property or public. It just says in front of the building.

It depends on a lot of factors.

In the case of a large hotel where pretty much only hotel patrons are using there sidewalk and they are being directed to that part of the sidewalk, I think you would have a strong case.

In the case of a small retail store on 17th avenue, probably not.

It's not black and white. However, these kinds of cases are fairly common. I handle some personal injury cases, but generally avoid slip and falls.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

I never understood the entitlement people have in everyday unfortunate scenarios, including car accidents.

Interesting.

Are you saying people suffer a loss as a result of another person/entity's negligence shouldn't be allowed to seek compensation?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by blankall

It depends on a lot of factors.

In the case of a large hotel where pretty much only hotel patrons are using there sidewalk and they are being directed to that part of the sidewalk, I think you would have a strong case.

In the case of a small retail store on 17th avenue, probably not.

It's not black and white. However, these kinds of cases are fairly common. I handle some personal injury cases, but generally avoid slip and falls.

I think it is also important to know where the alleged hazard came from.

Is it the result of just snow thaw/freeze cycle, or is it from run off from the hotel, ie: downspout water running onto the sidewalk.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by blankall

If you have a business that is encouraging people to come in via a sidewalk directly outside your business, you are responsible for the sidewalk.

You are responsible to the people who use your business, not just for the business, if that makes sense.

Listen, people sue all the time for slipping on sidewalks. The process is simple. Hire a lawyer. They will write a letter to the business. If the business can show they were reasonably taking care of the sidewalk there is no lawsuit. If the business was cutting corners there is a lawsuit.

Are we saying the same thing here? Because depending on where and what the "sidewalk" was, the potential course of action changes. If it's a city sidewalk, then in all likelihood, no action. If it's a private sidewalk, on private property, then maybe. But in both scenarios, it's an uphill climb. Slip and falls are notoriously difficult and annoying to prosecute.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Are we saying the same thing here? Because depending on where and what the "sidewalk" was, the potential course of action changes. If it's a city sidewalk, then in all likelihood, no action. If it's a private sidewalk, on private property, then maybe. But in both scenarios, it's an uphill climb. Slip and falls are notoriously difficult and annoying to prosecute.

A public sidewalk outside of a large hotel wouldn't be that hard to establish liability for.

Slip and fall cases are very common. They typically settle outside of court. The ones that aren't successful are more likely to go to court, as the insurers will topically only push files to court they are sure that they can win.

In cases with a grey area like a sidewalk you might settle for a percentage based on risk or a nuisance amount.

Edit: I do practice in bc where it does look like it's easier to bring a claim. However there are definitely Alberta lawyers advertising for slip and fall cases involving sidewalks..



https://www.robinsonllp.com/articles...p-fall-injury/

Anyways it's flat or wrong to state you have no case just because the fall happened on a sidewalk. Particular if the fall occurred right at the entrance. Like I said before talk to a lawyer. Your odds of success will depend on the specific rules in the area the fall occurred too. So I'd recommend speaking to a local lawyer.

Edit: I've also been referring to the sidewalk directly outside the business entrance. Once again another factor.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by blankall

A public sidewalk outside of a large hotel wouldn't be that hard to establish liability for.

I completely disagree. I did see that you perhaps dabble in PI, but I practice PI law exclusively and so I say with confidence that this is incorrect.

Originally Posted by blankall

Anyways it's flat or wrong to state you have no case just because the fall happened on a sidewalk. Particular if the fall occurred right at the entrance. Like I said before talk to a lawyer. Your odds of success will depend on the specific rules in the area the fall occurred too. So I'd recommend speaking to a local lawyer.

Edit: I've also been referring to the sidewalk directly outside the business entrance. Once again another factor.

I never said there's no case because the fall happened on the sidewalk. The entire basis of a prospective claim may hinge on where the fall occurred, whether it is a privately-owned or public walkway. And that's before even considering whether there was any failure under the OLA.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

I completely disagree. I did see that you perhaps dabble in PI, but I practice PI law exclusively and so I say with confidence that this is incorrect.



I never said there's no case because the fall happened on the sidewalk. The entire basis of a prospective claim may hinge on where the fall occurred, whether it is a privately-owned or public walkway. And that's before even considering whether there was any failure under the OLA.

I don't dabble in pi. I practiced it exclusively for many years, albeit in BC. It looks like the tests in Alberta are more stringent. However, there are multiple PI firms advertising for slip and fall cases on sidewalks. So it's obviously a thing.

I definitely wouldn't just dismiss a case outright because the fall was on a publicly owned sidewalk. Like I said the bylaws and the OLA can be used. Otherwise factors like the size of the hotel, for traffic, how close the fall was to the entrance, etc .. Will going into play.

Once again the OP needs to speak to a lawyer. There's zero harm in doing so, as they won't charge you for a consultation.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Interesting.

Are you saying people suffer a loss as a result of another person/entity's negligence shouldn't be allowed to seek compensation?

We don't have enough information to judge in this thread.

Negligence, sure. They should have their rehab bills paid, any work they missed compensated, as well as some pain and suffering money.

But the idea that me slipping under 'expected' circumstances (literally half the residential sidewalks were covered in ice this week) entitles me to a hige payout is silly.

Specifically, I know people that treat getting in car accidents like a job.

We are inundated with slip and fall injuries in the Winter. That's kind of life.

[jayswin]

^^^^^^^^

I worked with a guy who was in the middle of bull****ing the severity of injuries in an accident and laughing about it, looking for $20k in a lawsuit. The other guy ended up paying out a lot (not sure if it was all of it or not).

Made me sick to my stomach to know one of those ****ers in real life.

[Two Fivenagame]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

We don't have enough information to judge in this thread.

Negligence, sure. They should have their rehab bills paid, any work they missed compensated, as well as some pain and suffering money.

But the idea that me slipping under 'expected' circumstances (literally half the residential sidewalks were covered in ice this week) entitles me to a hige payout is silly.

Specifically, I know people that treat getting in car accidents like a job.

We are inundated with slip and fall injuries in the Winter. That's kind of life.

To be clear, I am not looking for a "huge payout" here. I know nothing about personal injury law and I just wanted to see if there would be some help.

All I know is my wife suffered a horrific injury on the sidewalk in front of a hotel. The sidewalk hadn't been salted, gravelled, or cleared, and it sure seems to me that it should have. I had to walk back to the hotel from the hospital later that night and NOTHING HAD BEEN DONE to that sidewalk.

So now she'll have to miss a min of 3 months of work, plus I had to pay for the ambulance, another night in a hotel, crutches, a shower chair, mileage from Calgary to Banff for checkups etc.

I just want to know if I can get a little help with this from whomever is negligent, if at all.

[fulham]

Have you talked to the hotel about it?

Bigger chains will absolutely make it right.

I had a ex GF break her foot in whistler when a outdoor tile staircase cracked and she slipped. I sure we would have had a case for some costly, and life/time consuming legal action; but I went to the hotel management first not threatening anything just explaining what happened and how it was their fault. and after a couple phone calls from him got my 7 night trip paid for and 7 free nights and bar/meal vouchers anytime of the year.

[Titan]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

To be clear, I am not looking for a "huge payout" here. I know nothing about personal injury law and I just wanted to see if there would be some help.

All I know is my wife suffered a horrific injury on the sidewalk in front of a hotel. The sidewalk hadn't been salted, gravelled, or cleared, and it sure seems to me that it should have. I had to walk back to the hotel from the hospital later that night and NOTHING HAD BEEN DONE to that sidewalk.

So now she'll have to miss a min of 3 months of work, plus I had to pay for the ambulance, another night in a hotel, crutches, a shower chair, mileage from Calgary to Banff for checkups etc.

I just want to know if I can get a little help with this from whoever is negligent, if at all.

The bull#### reactions to these threads make me shake my head.

People/businesses have responsibilities. These are pretty clearly laid out in legislation and case law. If they don't meet these responsibilities and someone is hurt, they must make that person as close to whole as possible. Seven free nights in a hotel is not even remotely close to "whole" for a broken body part.

This is why you don't get advice from the internet. Call Vlad, or one of the hundreds of personal injury lawyers out there and get advice on if you have a case. If so, decide if the process is worth the payout, then proceed as is most appropriate for you and your family.

In the meantime, take lots of photos and as many notes of what happened, as soon as possible. Even do a video explaining it. Just make a contemporaneous record now, while everything is fresh and add to it if you remember anything or incur new expenses or new symptoms arise. (Crutches, babysitter, meals as you could not cook, etc.)

[Titan]

BTW I hope your wife is ok. This sucks.

Also, remember you have 2 years from the injury to file a lawsuit. You do have lots of time to mull it over, but do collect as much evidence as you can now while it is fresh.

And if you think you took enough pictures, take a whole bunch more. They are free and you never know what you missed or what could be important.

[Strange Brew]

OP I really hope your wife heals quickly and fully.

I understand we all come from different experiences and backgrounds which essentially informs our views in something like this. For me, I read some of the posts and I understand why insurance premiums are so high.