Nov 16 practice notes. Rittich starts against Oilers. Lindholm maintenance day

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Pitchforks are lame.

Poor man's tridents. Quite literally.

[kman35ca]

Originally Posted by redforever

Absolutely. Neal might be a finisher but he has to keep up to his teammates on the ice in order to receive something to finish. Don't think he can do that with Gaudreau and Monahan, at least not on a consistent basis. Personally I think Lindholm has made Neal expendable.

It is beginning to sound like Neal is getting the benefit of the doubt in hopes that he works himself out of his slump.

Time to start producing or else just put Neal in comments some have made about Smith being able to turn it around.

I think you hit the button on the head. Don't think Tre thought Lindholm would bring as much offence right from the start as he has. Management probably thought it would take sometime for him to get going, and maybe put up 50-60 points tops, but be able to bring in that right handed winger with a good 200 foot game. Plus being great at FO's and the pedigree of a 5th overall.

And IMO they signed Neal for that 20+ goals, and having a guy with as much playoff experience and some good (I hope) leadership qualities. I think he'll get going eventually. I know that's not good enough for a Flames Fan base frustrated with years of mediocrity, and recent Vet signings. (cough Brouwer)
Would be nice to see him set up on the power-play to use his one timer. He still has a great release.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

As much as I would like Neal to be scoring, I don't put it all on him.

He's scored at least 20 goals every year he has played, has done it on 4 different teams with at least 4 different coaches. If Neal doesn't score 15-20 here, I think it's also worth wondering why this coaching staff couldn't get that performance out of him.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

As much as I would like Neal to be scoring, I don't put it all on him.

He's scored at least 20 goals every year he has played, has done it on 4 different teams with at least 4 different coaches. If Neal doesn't score 15-20 here, I think it's also worth wondering why this coaching staff couldn't get that performance out of him.

Once again though ... he's been tried on 11 different line combinations including substantial time with Monahan and Gaudreau as well as Backlund and Tkachuk.

Luckily Neal is only blaming himself, that's key, but this isn't a coaching staff that isn't actively trying to find him a home.

[djsFlames]

At some point I'd like to see

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund/Lindholm - Lindholm
Bennett - Lindholm - Neal/Lindholm
Lindholm - Lindholm - Lindholm

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

At some point I'd like to see

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund/Lindholm - Lindholm
Bennett - Lindholm - Neal/Lindholm
Lindholm - Lindholm - Lindholm

I like it. RFL=Roll Four Lindholm

[Red]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Once again though ... he's been tried on 11 different line combinations including substantial time with Monahan and Gaudreau as well as Backlund and Tkachuk.

Luckily Neal is only blaming himself, that's key, but this isn't a coaching staff that isn't actively trying to find him a home.

Would love to see him on the 12th line combo. With Johnny and Monahan.
And then try Lindholm on a different line. Maybe he could do what Neal can't, drive a line.
Having both Neil and Lindholm contributing would be huge for this team. Not having tried that is 100% on the coach.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

At some point I'd like to see

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund/Lindholm - Lindholm
Bennett - Lindholm - Neal/Lindholm
Lindholm - Lindholm - Lindholm

So pick up Par Lindholm from Toronto, Hampus from Anaheim and make him a winger?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Red

Would love to see him on the 12th line combo. With Johnny and Monahan.
And then try Lindholm on a different line. Maybe he could do what Neal can't, drive a line.
Having both Neil and Lindholm contributing would be huge for this team. Not having tried that is 100% on the coach.

They've tried that combo.

He has 48 minutes with Backlund/Tkachuk, 40 minutes with Jankowski/Bennett and then 26 minutes with Monahan/Gaudreau.

The problem however is those 26 minutes stunk ... CF% 42% and expected goals split of 39%. Terrible.

Line Combination (5 minutes or greater)	TOI	CF%	xGF%
JAMES.NEAL-MATTHEW.TKACHUK-MIKAEL.BACKLUND	47.92	56.18	39.37
JAMES.NEAL-MARK.JANKOWSKI-SAM.BENNETT	39.45	54.55	59.93
JAMES.NEAL-JOHNNY.GAUDREAU-SEAN.MONAHAN	25.77	41.86	39.35
DEREK.RYAN-JAMES.NEAL-SAM.BENNETT	24.95	53.85	45.21
JAMES.NEAL-MIKAEL.BACKLUND-SAM.BENNETT	18.07	71.88	74.83
DEREK.RYAN-DILLON.DUBE-JAMES.NEAL	14.70	37.50	28.07
DILLON.DUBE-JAMES.NEAL-SAM.BENNETT	14.65	25.00	34.00
AUSTIN.CZARNIK-JAMES.NEAL-MARK.JANKOWSKI	9.57	26.32	16.42
DILLON.DUBE-ELIAS.LINDHOLM-JAMES.NEAL	8.62	66.67	97.87
JAMES.NEAL-MATTHEW.TKACHUK-SEAN.MONAHAN	6.37	57.14	36.59
ELIAS.LINDHOLM-JAMES.NEAL-JOHNNY.GAUDREAU	5.68	60.00	74.55

He seems to play well with Bennett but neither player finish so it goes for naught

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

At some point I'd like to see

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund/Lindholm - Lindholm
Bennett - Lindholm - Neal/Lindholm
Lindholm - Lindholm - Lindholm

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Once again though ... he's been tried on 11 different line combinations including substantial time with Monahan and Gaudreau as well as Backlund and Tkachuk.

Luckily Neal is only blaming himself, that's key, but this isn't a coaching staff that isn't actively trying to find him a home.

11 combinations in 19 games. Many of his combinations on the first and second lines have been extremely fleeting. I'm not sure it's meaningful or fair to say he's had a meaningful crack at developing flow or understanding with many of those combos or the powerplay.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

11 combinations in 19 games. Many of his combinations on the first and second lines have been extremely fleeting. I'm not sure it's meaningful or fair to say he's had a meaningful crack at developing flow or understanding with many of those combos or the powerplay.

His most frequent combination has been with Tkachuk and Backlund. His third most frequent combination is with Monahan and Gaudreau.

In either case ... a total of 75 minutes they have scored 2 goals for every 5 while on the ice (40%).

They've tried it, but it hasn't worked.

Wasn't one of the biggest criticisms of Gulutzan that he stuck with things when they clearly weren't working?

They may circle back again, in fact the way Peters goes with his nine best forwards on most nights I would be in fact they will circle back, but to this point it hasn't been a fit.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Bingo

His most frequent combination has been with Tkachuk and Backlund. His third most frequent combination is with Monahan and Gaudreau.

In either case ... a total of 75 minutes they have scored 2 goals for every 5 while on the ice (40%).

They've tried it, but it hasn't worked.

Wasn't one of the biggest criticisms of Gulutzan that he stuck with things when they clearly weren't working?

They may circle back again, in fact the way Peters goes with his nine best forwards on most nights I would be in fact they will circle back, but to this point it hasn't been a fit.

I appreciate the stats. Do you have access to how many games those minute totals came from? So is it 48 minutes with tkachuk and backlund through 3 games, for example?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

I appreciate the stats. Do you have access to how many games those minute totals came from? So is it 48 minutes with tkachuk and backlund through 3 games, for example?

It says 14, but I would have to think the bulk of that came in the five games ending in San Jose.

I think they had a spell in that come from behind game in Denver as well.

The problem with the data is that 1 second would register an additional game.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It says 14, but I would have to think the bulk of that came in the five games ending in San Jose.

I think they had a spell in that come from behind game in Denver as well.

The problem with the data is that 1 second would register an additional game.

I appreciate that.

I think that partly underlines my concern. Let's cut the games down to 7 to try and account for the 1 second shifts. At 48 minutes over 7 games, that's about 7 minutes a game or about 1 period per game. Even accounting for the odd game where they were together more, it's still doesn't look like things are being given a time to gel.

For the record I like Peters and I'm not trying to blame him or absolve Neal. I just think there's something going on here that's not data driven. Would be nice for both parties to figure it out, for all of our sakes.

[SeanCharles]

I like the top 2 lines as is and hope they stay together.

Neal doesn't seem to be a fit with our top 2 pairings.

Maybe if they split up the pairings Neal would fit in better but I just don't see it happening.

Neal needs to find his game on the 3rd line and PP.

[crapshoot]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

So pick up Par Lindholm from Toronto, Hampus from Anaheim and make him a winger?

And then we pick up Barclay Goodrow and put him on rw with Gaudreau and Monahan. And finally Brady to play alongside Matt. Make it happen Brad.