2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[killer_carlson]

The more I think about it and look at it, the more I think Price will be moved by Montreal - likely this offseason.

pure speculation on my part

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

The more I think about it and look at it, the more I think Price will be moved by Montreal - likely this offseason.

pure speculation on my part

I understand where you are coming from. the Habs trying to continue their re tool.
But not many teams can fit price under their cap. Moreover, the Habs have plenty of room for him, and no one to come fill his spot. I don't see it happening this soon.

[GranteedEV]

Comparing to the 2015 Blackhawks, you can't compare lines directly because we have different lines playing different roles. The comparision should really look like:

Shutdown line A:
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik vs Saad-Toews-Hossa

Let's call this a wash. Both were incredible at shutting opponents down. You could probably give a bit of a bonus to the Blackhawks' line because Toews won more faceoffs than Backlund.

Scoring Line A:
Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm vs Saad-Toews-Hossa
Both lines can score for you. Calgary has the best scorer in Gaudreau, but Chicago has the next two best scorers in Hossa and Toews. Lindholm vs Saad is a wash. I'm willing to call this a wash.

Scoring Line B
Patrick Kane and Two Friends vs Matthew Tkachuk and Two Friends

I think as much as I like our second scoring line, you gotta take Patrick Kane. He probably would have won the Art Ross that year over Benn, Tavares, and Crosby. It's a higher scoring league now, but relative to the league Kane was more dangerous.

Scoring Line C

Sharp-Vermette-Teravainen vs Bennett-Jankowski-Neal

Both teams seem to have a big vacuum down the middle. I believe we have a fix available in Bennett at 3C, but that's besides the point. Sharp vs Neal is pretty close and Bennett vs Teravainen seems pretty close to my eyes. I would personally like to see Czarnik-Bennett-Neal and I think if that were our 3rd line it would have an edge over the Blackhawks unit.


Shutdown Line B
Desjardins-Kruger-Shaw vs Bennett-Jankowski-Neal

I think the Blackhawks had an advantage here as Kruger was pretty suffocating. But again, if Bennett were our 3C I might change my mind.


Not Remotely A Shutdown Line

Bickell-Richards-Kane vs Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm

I would say Richards had the edge here defensively. I might feel differently if our top line were Gaudreau-Lindholm-Monahan.

Odds-And-Ends:
Andrew Shaw, despite playing on a pretty weak offensive line, was a big part of the Hawks PP offensively, and is generally a notably play driver

The Flames are still too early in their season to know what they have in their fourth line. I believe a Dube-Ryan-Jankowski line is what we should be looking at, but that's going to require the aformentioned tweak on our third line.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Comparing to the 2015 Blackhawks, you can't compare lines directly because we have different lines playing different roles. The comparision should really look like:

Shutdown line A:
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik vs Saad-Toews-Hossa

Let's call this a wash. Both were incredible at shutting opponents down. You could probably give a bit of a bonus to the Blackhawks' line because Toews won more faceoffs than Backlund.

Scoring Line A:
Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm vs Saad-Toews-Hossa
Both lines can score for you. Calgary has the best scorer in Gaudreau, but Chicago has the next two best scorers in Hossa and Toews. Lindholm vs Saad is a wash. I'm willing to call this a wash.

Scoring Line B
Patrick Kane and Two Friends vs Matthew Tkachuk and Two Friends

I think as much as I like our second scoring line, you gotta take Patrick Kane. He probably would have won the Art Ross that year over Benn, Tavares, and Crosby. It's a higher scoring league now, but relative to the league Kane was more dangerous.

Scoring Line C

Sharp-Vermette-Teravainen vs Bennett-Jankowski-Neal

Both teams seem to have a big vacuum down the middle. I believe we have a fix available in Bennett at 3C, but that's besides the point. Sharp vs Neal is pretty close and Bennett vs Teravainen seems pretty close to my eyes. I would personally like to see Czarnik-Bennett-Neal and I think if that were our 3rd line it would have an edge over the Blackhawks unit.


Shutdown Line B
Desjardins-Kruger-Shaw vs Bennett-Jankowski-Neal

I think the Blackhawks had an advantage here as Kruger was pretty suffocating. But again, if Bennett were our 3C I might change my mind.


Not Remotely A Shutdown Line

Bickell-Richards-Kane vs Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm

I would say Richards had the edge here defensively. I might feel differently if our top line were Gaudreau-Lindholm-Monahan.

Odds-And-Ends:
Andrew Shaw, despite playing on a pretty weak offensive line, was a big part of the Hawks PP offensively, and is generally a notably play driver

The Flames are still too early in their season to know what they have in their fourth line. I believe a Dube-Ryan-Jankowski line is what we should be looking at, but that's going to require the aformentioned tweak on our third line.

??? So our top two lines are a wash with one line of theirs?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Comparing to the 2015 Blackhawks, you can't compare lines directly because we have different lines playing different roles. The comparision should really look like:

Shutdown line A:
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik vs Saad-Toews-Hossa

Let's call this a wash. Both were incredible at shutting opponents down. You could probably give a bit of a bonus to the Blackhawks' line because Toews won more faceoffs than Backlund.

Scoring Line A:
Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm vs Saad-Toews-Hossa
Both lines can score for you. Calgary has the best scorer in Gaudreau, but Chicago has the next two best scorers in Hossa and Toews. Lindholm vs Saad is a wash. I'm willing to call this a wash.

Scoring Line B
Patrick Kane and Two Friends vs Matthew Tkachuk and Two Friends

I think as much as I like our second scoring line, you gotta take Patrick Kane. He probably would have won the Art Ross that year over Benn, Tavares, and Crosby. It's a higher scoring league now, but relative to the league Kane was more dangerous.

Scoring Line C

Sharp-Vermette-Teravainen vs Bennett-Jankowski-Neal

Both teams seem to have a big vacuum down the middle. I believe we have a fix available in Bennett at 3C, but that's besides the point. Sharp vs Neal is pretty close and Bennett vs Teravainen seems pretty close to my eyes. I would personally like to see Czarnik-Bennett-Neal and I think if that were our 3rd line it would have an edge over the Blackhawks unit.


Shutdown Line B
Desjardins-Kruger-Shaw vs Bennett-Jankowski-Neal

I think the Blackhawks had an advantage here as Kruger was pretty suffocating. But again, if Bennett were our 3C I might change my mind.


Not Remotely A Shutdown Line

Bickell-Richards-Kane vs Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm

I would say Richards had the edge here defensively. I might feel differently if our top line were Gaudreau-Lindholm-Monahan.

Odds-And-Ends:
Andrew Shaw, despite playing on a pretty weak offensive line, was a big part of the Hawks PP offensively, and is generally a notably play driver

The Flames are still too early in their season to know what they have in their fourth line. I believe a Dube-Ryan-Jankowski line is what we should be looking at, but that's going to require the aformentioned tweak on our third line.

That's all fine, but the debate was about the need for two top quality offensive centres (I'm guessing based on Crosby/Malkin, Backstrom/Kuznestov or Kopitar/Carter).

You have, I supposed established that, depending on winger strength and ability, you can have a contender without that. The Hawks did, IMO. So did the Preds two seasons ago.

[Flash Walken]

I feel dumber having read that quoted post.

[Samuelsson]

Cheers for taking the time to post though, GranteedEV.

If some of you have got nothing productive to add to the thread, don't add to it at all.

[PepsiFree]

Monahan
Lindholm
Backlund
Ryan
Jankowski

Plus:
Bennett
Dube
Czarnik

“The Flames lack centre depth”

Ok.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Monahan
Lindholm
Backlund
Ryan
Jankowski

Plus:
Bennett
Dube
Czarnik

“The Flames lack centre depth”

Ok.

Listing a bunch of names doesn't really prove a point, especially when multiple names play in the same line.

I think the flames are definitely missing either elite goaltending or an elite centre to be considered true contenders.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Listing a bunch of names doesn't really prove a point, especially when multiple names play in the same line.

I think the flames are definitely missing either elite goaltending or an elite centre to be considered true contenders.

In your opinion how many elite centres play in the NHL?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

In your opinion how many elite centres play in the NHL?

Why does that matter?

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

In your opinion how many elite centres play in the NHL?

A similar number to the number of teams considered real contenders, or that have contender potential. It’s a necessary ingredient to winning in the current NHL climate, like it or not.

Whether Monahan qualifies for that or not is another debate. But the need for a top 10-ish centre is very real when you look at teams that have gone all the way.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Datsyuk
Crosby/Malkin
Toews
Bergeron
Kopitar
Toews
Kopitar
Toews
Crosby/Malkin
Crosby/Malkin
Kuznetsov/Backstrom

Every Stanley Cup winning team in the last decade has either had an Art Ross or Selke winning center except for Washington. They did, however, have two point-per-game centers and not to mention Oveckin who's sort of okay.

It's obviously great to have depth, and I'm not suggesting this is the NBA, but top tier talent still wins the Cup in this league.

You could do something similar with Lidstrom, Keith, Chara, Doughty to show that it's almost a requirement to have a Norris winner as well - assuming you don't have a couple generational forwards to make up for it.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Every Stanley Cup winning team in the last decade has either had an Art Ross or Selke winning center except for Washington.

One correction, Kopitar and Bergeron and Toews all won Selkes after winning the cup, which suggests this is a chicken-and-egg scenario.

Their highest finishes prior to a cup were:

5th (Bergeron)
4th (Bergeron)
4th (Toews)
9th (Kopitar)

Backlund has already finished 4th in Selke voting

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

??? So our top two lines are a wash with one line of theirs?

My point, if it wasn't clear, is that different lines play different roles and what matters is overall outplaying the opponent over 60 minutes. That's how our team is built and we have to hope that it was a safe bet.

Our top line is a wash with their top line offensively.
Our second line is a wash with their top line defensively.
Our second line is worse than their second line offensively.
Our first line defensively is around a wash with their second line defensively.

I am just saying that the overall 200 foot impacts of the two top sixes are not miles apart, as the teams are not built the same way. However the Blackhawks were, even with a #1C, an outlier among cup winners, most of whom have better top sixes. The Hawks got through it with an offensively elite third line and a defensively elite fourth line, and our hope also has to lie in bottom six that can make up the difference.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Why does that matter?

You, and many others correctly pointed out that not having an elite centre hampers a teams ability to win the big one. Lots of people suggested that this is a problem worth solving. As such, It is useful to understand how many players qualify as elite, so that we can gain context on how a team can go about solidifying their chances at winning it all.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

You, and many others correctly pointed out that not having an elite centre hampers a teams ability to win the big one. Lots of people suggested that this is a problem worth solving. As such, It is useful to understand how many players qualify as elite, so that we can gain context on how a team can go about solidifying their chances at winning it all.

I don't think it is a problem capable of being solved, which is why I think going all in on a top tier goalie is the way forward.

Check that list of centres and ask how each team acquired them and that's basically the only solution for how you address that need.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't think it is a problem capable of being solved, which is why I think going all in on a top tier goalie is the way forward.

Check that list of centres and ask how each team acquired them and that's basically the only solution for how you address that need.

I completely agree. Game breaking talent is almost always found in the draft, and very difficult to trade for.
Acquiring a decent goaltender would make a large difference on this roster. Still, it is no simple task.

[mrdonkey]

God, Bennett reaching his potential would have changed the outlook of this team’s Stanley Cup chances so hard. Sadly that ship appears to have sailed.

Imagine this team with a Doug Gilmour-like PPG #1 centre with Monahan rounding out the #2 slot. Very different picture than what we have with Sam Bennett the forever snakebitten 3rd line winger.

[Mitch]

I see we are still underrating Monahan, even after sitting top 10 in scoring after October and a first star week

[The Cobra]

When the Hawks won their last Stanley Cup, their best player was likely Crawford, although Keith played as well as he ever did.

I also think that guys like Toews, Kane, Keith and Hossa raised their level of play up as the playoffs went on in a way most players cannot do.

Their Cup win was likely an outlier and was simply elite players willing themselves to victory knowing it was likely the end (or near end) of the dynasty.