Ranking the depth charts - pacific division - forwards

[CaptainCrunch]

I'd argue that at best that Oilers top line is third best in the pacific.


Right now, you look at Calgary's top line with Monahan being better the RNH, Neal being far better the Rattie and McDavid being better then Gaudreau, but Calgary's top line will probably outproduce Edmonton's top line. The Knights top line until proven differently is the class of the pacific, their production last year puts it there.

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Kopitar is a very up and down player though — 70 points, then 64 points, then 74 points, then 52 points, then 92 points (career highs in all point categories)

I think he has another solid season but he maxes out at 30/50/80 and might even come a bit further down from those totals back to his career average of 25/45/70

kings over achieved last year

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'd argue that at best that Oilers top line is third best in the pacific.


Right now, you look at Calgary's top line with Monahan being better the RNH, Neal being far better the Rattie and McDavid being better then Gaudreau, but Calgary's top line will probably outproduce Edmonton's top line. The Knights top line until proven differently is the class of the pacific, their production last year puts it there.

It's possible that the Flames players may score more goals. I don't see how they will be a better line though.

You say Neal is far better than Rattie and its true, but Mcdavid has outproduced Gaudreau by 63 points in the last two seasons. That's nearly the same as the gap in production between Neal and Rattie(74) and Rattie only played 19 games in that span.

If you look at runs for/against McDavid is +47 over the last two seasons. He outscores everyone he plays against at a phenomenal rate and he's had a rotating cast of line mates. I think its safe to say that Mcdavid plus whoever is going to be a dominant line.

I think the Knights line is in for a market correction. Karlsson shot 23% last year. I would bet my house that he scores less goals this year.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

It's possible that the Flames players may score more goals. I don't see how they will be a better line though.



You say Neal is far better than Rattie and its true, but Mcdavid has outproduced Gaudreau by 63 points in the last two seasons. That's nearly the same as the gap in production between Neal and Rattie(74) and Rattie only played 19 games in that span.



If you look at runs for/against McDavid is +47 over the last two seasons. He outscores everyone he plays against at a phenomenal rate and he's had a rotating cast of line mates. I think its safe to say that Mcdavid plus whoever is going to be a dominant line.



I think the Knights line is in for a market correction. Karlsson shot 23% last year. I would bet my house that he scores less goals this year.

So you’re saying the gap between McDavid-Gaudreau is basically covered by the gap between Rattie-Neal (although I wouldn’t call an extra 11 points insignificant). Then you have Monahan who has outproduced RNH by over 30 points the last 2 seasons, so the Flames top line are a net +27 in points produced last year vs. the Oilers. So again, how is the Oilers top line higher ranked than the Flames? Or should we just chalk that up to the “McDavid” factor?

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

So you’re saying the gap between McDavid-Gaudreau is basically covered by the gap between Rattie-Neal (although I wouldn’t call an extra 11 points insignificant). Then you have Monahan who has outproduced RNH by over 30 points the last 2 seasons, so the Flames top line are a net +27 in points produced last year vs. the Oilers. So again, how is the Oilers top line higher ranked than the Flames? Or should we just chalk that up to the “McDavid” factor?

Because McDavid is 50 goals better than his opposition at ES in the past two years.

Gaudreau and Monahan are +12 and +18 respectively.

50 is better than 18.

So, yeah it's definitely the McDavid factor.

[foshizzle11]

Yes McDavid does bring a factor that no other player in the league does right now but you can't win hockey games with just him performing, the Oilers proved that this past season.

The Flames have a more complete first line now, a bonafide top line LW, C and RW who will get to see the ice together.

The Oilers have 1 bonafide top line player in McDavid. Don't you think he would get 50 goals and 150 points if he had Gaudreau and Neal on his wings? I do. The plugs the Oilers have to slot in next to McDavid hinder his ability to score even more points.

The only way the Oilers have a chance to add good players to his line is detrimental to the rest of the lines, that isn't the case for the Flames, on paper right now.

Yup 50 is definitely better, but overall team performance and DEPTH for all 4 lines matter. The oilers have a bunch of AHLers on their roster, McDavid makes it so the Oilers aren't 31st place but like 27th instead.

I'll take the Flames roster and prospects every day of the week based on DEPTH, which is what this thread is about.

[tkflames]

Edit: My bad - it looks like I missed CCs subsequent posts. Apologies

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by tkflames

I find it interesting that a thread titled ranking forward "depth" only looks at the first line. The Flames will likely be top 3 in scoring in the division, not because their first line outscores the oilers top line (although that may happen), but because their 2nd, 3rd and 4th line should outmatch most forward lines in the division. If this then forces teams to match differently against the other lines, it may then free up the top line (much like Vegas last year).

You posted this after all 4 lines have been looked at.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

...The Oilers have 1 bonafide top line player in McDavid. Don't you think he would get 50 goals and 150 points if he had Gaudreau and Neal on his wings? I do...

I don’t. It has been more than 20 years since any player has scored anything close to 150 points.

[d_phaneuf]

Rnh ams mcdavid had some really good chemistry late last year

I think any line with mcdavid is the best line in the division for the forseeable future

Its hard to rank the rest, just because we dont know how teams will set their lines, but i think LA, SJ, CGY are in the next grouping, Vegas should take a step back based on their insane shooting percentage last year, ducks are transitioning from getzlaf and perry to rakell and silfverberg, phoenix and vancouver are young and dependent on guys like keller, strome, boeser, and petterson progressing to get to the top

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

It's possible that the Flames players may score more goals. I don't see how they will be a better line though.

You say Neal is far better than Rattie and its true, but Mcdavid has outproduced Gaudreau by 63 points in the last two seasons. That's nearly the same as the gap in production between Neal and Rattie(74) and Rattie only played 19 games in that span.

If you look at runs for/against McDavid is +47 over the last two seasons. He outscores everyone he plays against at a phenomenal rate and he's had a rotating cast of line mates. I think its safe to say that Mcdavid plus whoever is going to be a dominant line.

I think the Knights line is in for a market correction. Karlsson shot 23% last year. I would bet my house that he scores less goals this year.

I’ll take that bet. If karlsson scores more you lose your house. Hopefully without a house you also don’t have Internet and I never have to read your Oiler fan boy posts on a flames forum ever again. Come on karlsson!

[monkeyman]

Perhaps the best way to think of depth is to imagine what your team would be like if one of your top players suffered a season ending injury. What would the Oilers look like If McDavid suffered another season ending injury?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Perhaps the best way to think of depth is to imagine what your team would be like if one of your top players suffered a season ending injury. What would the Oilers look like If McDavid suffered another season ending injury?

Bakersfield Condors

[CaptainCrunch]

Defensive Pair 1

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Bakersfield Condors

They don't have much in Bakersfield to call up that's all that exciting.

[dustygoon]

Something wrong with link. Nurse/Larson? This is supposed to be defensive pair #1.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Defensive Pair 1

D1:

Los Angeles
San Jose
Anaheim
Calgary
Vegas
Arizona
Edmonton
Vancouver

Doughty is the undisputed best d in the division. Muzzin is no slouch either.

I put Vlasic-Braun as San Jose's top pairing. Vlasic is among the best defensively. Braun is steady as well.

Lindholm-Manson. Both guys putting up points last year and are hard to play against. Where did Manson come from? He had zero PP points last year. Will be interesting to see if he can maintain that level of play or if it was just a one off.

Giordano remains solid but has lost some of the offence that used to put him at the top of lists. Brodie is coming off two uneven seasons.

Vegas just came out of the SC final and I still can't take them seriously. McNabb was a third pairing guy last season. Schmidt is pretty good though.

OEL I think might be a lot overrated. He puts up offence but his team always gets abused when he is on the ice. Hjalmarsson was injury plagued.

Nurse still has some growing pains. Larsson is solid but not dynamic.

Edler needs to escape. Stecher is whatever.

[CaptainCrunch]

second pairings

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

second pairings

SJ
ANH
CGY
LA
VGK
EDM
ARI
VAN

I'd call SJ and Anaheim well clear of the pack here as SJ has Burns and Ana has Fowler on their second pairings.

Most of the rest could go either way IMO.

Teams like CGY and EDM are counting on bounce backs from Hamonic, Sekera.

Teams like CGY, VGK, and PHX are looking for breakouts from their young guys.

[JohnnyB]

Overall, this thread makes it pretty obvious that the Flames are really counting on big breakouts from young players. Otherwise the team is pretty much middle of the pack for the division and, if standings play out like the depth rankings do, the Flames are just in to be fighting for a wildcard again. SJ, Anaheim and Vegas all look better and LA is in the type of place where they could be really up or down. The Flames are clearly better than Vancouver, Arizona and Edmonton, but they have a ways to go before looking like the cream of the division and need young players to realize suspected potential in order to do it.