[Trade] Sabres acquire Ben Bishop from Stars

[Flamesfan05]

Weird trade. Obviously Dallas didn’t need to trade him but I guess a 7th is worth the paperwork

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Poison

Thanks for the thorough explanation 🙄
Both injured players with a year left on their contract.
Bishop wont play again and Mony will but that makes no difference on the contract unload.
The only difference is Mony has some type of no trade list.
Youre very helpful tho.

Monny will count against the cap because he will be healthy enough to play. And his team will play real dollars to him. His contract has negative calue.

Bishop will never play, his salary is paid by insurance and will only count against the cap if his team wants it to. Therefore, to a team wanting to hit the cap floor, they can take on Bishop for minimal cost in terms of draft picks and money paid.

It makes an exceptional difference in unloading the contract. Who wants to pay Monny $6M+ to play poorly and take up cap space?

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

He’s injured and won’t play ever again.

Read Bishop, thought Holtby. Carry on.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Monny will count against the cap because he will be healthy enough to play. And his team will play real dollars to him. His contract has negative calue.

Bishop will never play, his salary is paid by insurance and will only count against the cap if his team wants it to. Therefore, to a team wanting to hit the cap floor, they can take on Bishop for minimal cost in terms of draft picks and money paid.

It makes an exceptional difference in unloading the contract. Who wants to pay Monny $6M+ to play poorly and take up cap space?

If all you care about is hitting the floor, Monahan can play as much as Bishop. And he might actually be able to play and contribute. The only advantage of Bishop is that if, by some miracle, Buffalo hits the cap ceiling, they can put Bishop on LTIR. But that seems pretty unlikely in the one season he has left.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If all you care about is hitting the floor, Monahan can play as much as Bishop. And he might actually be able to play and contribute. The only advantage of Bishop is that if, by some miracle, Buffalo hits the cap ceiling, they can put Bishop on LTIR. But that seems pretty unlikely in the one season he has left.

Buffalo wants to hit the cap floor but not pay any money to do so.

Anyone can basically hit the floor if they want to, the harder part is doing so without paying that much dough to do so.

Players on LTIR (for life) with insurance paying some or most of their salary have always been movable for quite a bit less cost than similar players who are actually healthy enough to play (albeit poorly).

The advantage of Bishop is that he won't play and won't cost much in terms of cash to hit the floor. That is a significant difference between Bishop and Monny.

There is nothing in the Bishop deal that should lead anyone to the conclusion that it affects the Monny situation in any way. Unless, of course, Monny is deemed injured for all of next season.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Buffalo wants to hit the cap floor but not pay any money to do so.

Anyone can basically hit the floor if they want to, the harder part is doing so without paying that much dough to do so.

Players on LTIR (for life) with insurance paying some or most of their salary have always been movable for quite a bit less cost than similar players who are actually healthy enough to play (albeit poorly).

The advantage of Bishop is that he won't play and won't cost much in terms of cash to hit the floor. That is a significant difference between Bishop and Monny.

There is nothing in the Bishop deal that should lead anyone to the conclusion that it affects the Monny situation in any way. Unless, of course, Monny is deemed injured for all of next season.

Well, the cash part is correct, assuming insurance is paying. The LTIR part is not a factor. The “won’t play” part as an advantage makes absolutely no sense. You can get Monahan and not play him too, healthy or not. And he’s there if you need him. Of course, he’s far more likely to be more like a Lucic - not worth his contract, but assuming he recovers, will contribute.

[Strange Brew]

Insurance paying Bishop’s contract is a rather gigantic factor and the single biggest difference with Monahan. No comparison really.

[TheScorpion]

But there is absolutely a comparison with Lucic, who is only owed $875,000 in real money for the final year of his deal after his $3 million signing bonus is paid out at the start of July.

$875,000 in real cash vs a $5.25 million cap hit. That has value for some teams.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

But there is absolutely a comparison with Lucic, who is only owed $875,000 in real money for the final year of his deal after his $3 million signing bonus is paid out at the start of July.

$875,000 in real cash vs a $5.25 million cap hit. That has value for some teams.

Absolutely, problem is you can't just trade him to some bottom feeding team looking to get to the cap floor without his full cooperation.

Maybe he is ready to pack it in and pull an LTIRetirement. If that's the case then he wouldn't care where his rights were traded.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

But there is absolutely a comparison with Lucic, who is only owed $875,000 in real money for the final year of his deal after his $3 million signing bonus is paid out at the start of July.

$875,000 in real cash vs a $5.25 million cap hit. That has value for some teams.

Yes, at least enough value that the cost of moving it is much lower.

With Lucic, it's really a matter of whether he will approve a trade. After that, a deal can be struck.

But it's not really a real comparison, as the situations are completely different, other than you have one contract that is easily movable, and another contract which is movable fairly easily, but only if the player approves the trade.

It's not like the Bishop trade trended on new ground, players who are lifetime injured with insurance paying the bulk of their salary have always been easily moved.

[GioforPM]

I haven’t read anything saying Bishop’s salary is injured and his injury history would have suggested it’s not. Can anyone confirm it?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I haven’t read anything saying Bishop’s salary is injured and his injury history would have suggested it’s not. Can anyone confirm it?

I assume you mean "insured"?

I assumed he was, but I don't know.

If Buffalo was responsible for his full salary, the trade makes zero sense. There are better ways of getting to the cap floor, such as paying actual players to play.

I did some googling and found the following:

"A source told The Buffalo News that the Sabres will pay approximately $700,000 of Bishop's $3.5 million salary because the contract is insured."

That makes more sense. The Sabres pay $700,000 to get close to $5M worth of used cap space.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The “won’t play” part as an advantage makes absolutely no sense.

It's actually the only thing that makes sense.

If Bishop was actually playing, there would be no insurance and no LTIR.

His contract would be immovable, unless he was playing well. Buffalo would have had zero interest in him.

The best thing for the Flames next year is likely Monny being injured all year, so they get cap relief. His being healthy enough to play would be worse case scenario, assuming of course he's not playing to his previous standard.

[FurnaceFace]

….and Tre already said Monahan is something like 6 weeks ahead of where where he was last injury/offseason therefore expect him to play.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It's actually the only thing that makes sense.

If Bishop was actually playing, there would be no insurance and no LTIR.

His contract would be immovable, unless he was playing well. Buffalo would have had zero interest in him.

The best thing for the Flames next year is likely Monny being injured all year, so they get cap relief. His being healthy enough to play would be worse case scenario, assuming of course he's not playing to his previous standard.

Odd hypothetical, but if he was playing similar to other aged goalies like Elliott, Holtby, Halak, etc. - which is to say not good but still more reliable than 3rd stringers like Dell/Subban/Tokarski/etc - then they could absolutely be interested. $3.5 vs 4.9AAV is still a decent delta, especially considering how many guys are on backloaded deals at the moment (e.g. Khudobin). BUF currently have zero goalies signed, and Craig Anderson isn't exactly the greatest Plan A.


On Monny...LTIR isn't that simple. Most likely the Flames will be over the cap this season, but it's preferable to not use LTIR if you can avoid it.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Odd hypothetical, but if he was playing similar to other aged goalies like Elliott, Holtby, Halak, etc. - which is to say not good but still more reliable than 3rd stringers like Dell/Subban/Tokarski/etc - then they could absolutely be interested. $3.5 vs 4.9AAV is still a decent delta, especially considering how many guys are on backloaded deals at the moment (e.g. Khudobin). BUF currently have zero goalies signed, and Craig Anderson isn't exactly the greatest Plan A.


On Monny...LTIR isn't that simple. Most likely the Flames will be over the cap this season, but it's preferable to not use LTIR if you can avoid it.

I did qualify my statement in regards to him playing well. Buffalo was looking for a very cheap way to add cap. Bishop actually playing did not fit that bill.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I haven’t read anything saying Bishop’s salary is injured and his injury history would have suggested it’s not. Can anyone confirm it?

Serious question? Ask yourself why Buffalo is doing this.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Serious question? Ask yourself why Buffalo is doing this.

There is only one logical reason, I am stunned that many are confused.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It's actually the only thing that makes sense.

If Bishop was actually playing, there would be no insurance and no LTIR.

His contract would be immovable, unless he was playing well. Buffalo would have had zero interest in him.

The best thing for the Flames next year is likely Monny being injured all year, so they get cap relief. His being healthy enough to play would be worse case scenario, assuming of course he's not playing to his previous standard.

It’s the insurance, not the no playing that’s important.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Serious question? Ask yourself why Buffalo is doing this.

Everyone knows why they are doing it. For a pick and to get to the floor, because they can afford it. The insurance makes it make cash sense. If it exists.

I do wonder why any insurer would have covered him. Some NHlers are uninsurable.