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Old 08-09-2019, 05:10 PM   #681
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What a backwards place.

I've maintained they aren't a first world country, they're just a third world country with money


No they’re not. There are all kinds of terrible there but also many of the greatest people, places and achievements. Unfortunately the same self confidence, independence, individualism and self-proclaimed exceptionalism that led to great achievements over the years, plus in some cases a strong dose of religion, also creates legions of shameless deplorables who are absolutely convinced of their positions.
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Old 08-09-2019, 06:14 PM   #682
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Is this actually real?!

wow... i had no idea how pervasive the attraction to guns are down in the states...

that's nuts seeing something like that...granted, i've never visited a walmart while down in the states...
That gun display surprises you?

I’m not one bit surprised.
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Old 08-09-2019, 06:38 PM   #683
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That gun display surprises you?

I’m not one bit surprised.
it was a combination of the display and sign... as noted by You&me, the sign was a prank apparently.

i guess i've never seen guns on display like that; i've only seen them behind a counter with an attendant or clerk there.
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Old 08-09-2019, 08:53 PM   #684
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Almost had another one, thankfully he was stopped. They need to take away more video games, quickly.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1159960960662044672
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:34 PM   #685
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Default Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread 2

NM. Wrong thread.

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Old 08-09-2019, 10:29 PM   #686
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Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary View Post
Is this actually real?!

wow... i had no idea how pervasive the attraction to guns are down in the states...

that's nuts seeing something like that...granted, i've never visited a walmart while down in the states...
First, it's not real, the sign on top was a prank.

Second, I'd guess that rifle ownership in Alberta is probably way higher per capita than in the United States.

Third, other than the mass killings, rifles are very rarely used to kill people. Handguns kill people at 20x the rate and for some reason everyone focuses on rifles:

Deaths by handguns in the US: 5,562
Deaths by any kind of rifle:248
Deaths by knives:1,567
Blunt objects:435
Hand,fists,feet:660
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...tables/table-4


Edmonton had a rough year in 2014, when 35 people died of homicides in Edmonton. Per capita that would translate to 12,000 in the United states.

Calgary had 26 in 2014, which would translate to 7,280 in the US population.

Both of those numbers are way above the per capita rate that people are murdered with guns in the US, and are probably on par with the murder rate as a whole in the US.


The point? US's gun problem is hand guns. Guns in general need to be eliminated to make any kind of difference. Mass shootings get the headlines, but they are not even registering as a significant risk of death, nor are the weapons of choice used in those crimes.
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:21 PM   #687
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First, it's not real, the sign on top was a prank.

Second, I'd guess that rifle ownership in Alberta is probably way higher per capita than in the United States.

Third, other than the mass killings, rifles are very rarely used to kill people. Handguns kill people at 20x the rate and for some reason everyone focuses on rifles:

Deaths by handguns in the US: 5,562
Deaths by any kind of rifle:248
Deaths by knives:1,567
Blunt objects:435
Hand,fists,feet:660
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...tables/table-4


Edmonton had a rough year in 2014, when 35 people died of homicides in Edmonton. Per capita that would translate to 12,000 in the United states.

Calgary had 26 in 2014, which would translate to 7,280 in the US population.

Both of those numbers are way above the per capita rate that people are murdered with guns in the US, and are probably on par with the murder rate as a whole in the US.


The point? US's gun problem is hand guns. Guns in general need to be eliminated to make any kind of difference. Mass shootings get the headlines, but they are not even registering as a significant risk of death, nor are the weapons of choice used in those crimes.

First of all you're picking overall homicide rates and prorating them over an entire country... looking at the overall homide per capita over the entire country is a different thing. That's like picking chicago and extrapolating its murder rate to the rest of the united states.

the statistics for country per capita are easy to find.

Secondly, how many of those murders in Calgary and Edmonton were by guns? Not sure why the total murder rate is being used when the discussion point of this thread is about mass shootings.

i have zero issue with people owning rifles or guns (so long as they are properly regulated)... in fact, people in canada can even own AR style weapons if they want to (66K in fact) - they just have to go through the process of getting a restricted license.

there will never be a handgun ban in the US.... legislators can't even close a loophole about background checks.
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:29 AM   #688
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Originally Posted by nfotiu View Post
First, it's not real, the sign on top was a prank.

Second, I'd guess that rifle ownership in Alberta is probably way higher per capita than in the United States.

Third, other than the mass killings, rifles are very rarely used to kill people. Handguns kill people at 20x the rate and for some reason everyone focuses on rifles:

Deaths by handguns in the US: 5,562
Deaths by any kind of rifle:248
Deaths by knives:1,567
Blunt objects:435
Hand,fists,feet:660
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...tables/table-4


Edmonton had a rough year in 2014, when 35 people died of homicides in Edmonton. Per capita that would translate to 12,000 in the United states.

Calgary had 26 in 2014, which would translate to 7,280 in the US population.

Both of those numbers are way above the per capita rate that people are murdered with guns in the US, and are probably on par with the murder rate as a whole in the US.


The point? US's gun problem is hand guns. Guns in general need to be eliminated to make any kind of difference. Mass shootings get the headlines, but they are not even registering as a significant risk of death, nor are the weapons of choice used in those crimes.
These rifles are used to carry out public massacres with such frequency and efficiency that keeping them all straight is an exercise in self flagellation. That in and of itself is a problem. Widespread access means that anyone can just have one of these things, and they are not things that just anyone should have.

I have a friend who owns an AR. I'm incredibly unnerved by that. But as he explained to me in detail the process he had to go through in order to be able to acquire it, it seemed like a process that was really well designed to prevent incels from turning classrooms into Fallujah. I've lived in Alberta for 25 years - the only school shooting I can ever recall occurred in Taber around 2001, I believe. We do not appreciate that enough.

It is an enormous problem that just anyone can buy weapons like the AR over the counter like they're cigarettes. Someone who wants that sort of weapon needs to tell someone else why. Preferably several people. They need to go through a series of protocols to ensure they're not a danger to the public.

There is a crisis involving massacres with rifles. We know this because they don't happen anywhere else. Because as you say, mass shootings get the headlines. They aren't hiding all the massacres in Munich. Those just aren't a thing. They happen in America as a matter of course, because nobody is controlling who has access to obscenely powerful semi automatic rifles.

A man on Twitter asked how he was going to deal with 30-50 feral hogs without an AR 15. Sir, if that weapon can easily dispatch THIRTY TO FIFTY FERAL HOGS, what do you imagine it does to a room full of ninth graders? That's the sort of thing just anybody should have. Why? So some ####### can share a foxhole with the next Adam Lanza in a failed attempt to overthrow the Warren administration?

At this point, mass shootings are an entirely separate issue from handgun control. People are being slaughtered at random by rifle fire. I don't see how 'stopping the rifle massacres' is not enough of an incentive to everyone. Get rid of the widespread access to these insanely overpowered death machines. We can deal with everything else later. But this needs to stop.

How is everyone not scared ####less of this all day every day? How do they send their kids to school in the morning? Imagine praying your children come home alive every morning when you drop them off at school. How is anything worth that?
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:53 AM   #689
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Yeah essentially rubber bullets. They make them for pretty much every gun. Essentially a piece of rubber that's sent down the muzzle from a blank cartridge. Some guns need to be modified to use them

Its tough to call a rubber bullet a non lethal weapon.


As someone once said, a well aimed rubber bullet is lethal.
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Old 08-10-2019, 06:33 AM   #690
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First of all you're picking overall homicide rates and prorating them over an entire country... looking at the overall homide per capita over the entire country is a different thing. That's like picking chicago and extrapolating its murder rate to the rest of the united states.

the statistics for country per capita are easy to find.

Secondly, how many of those murders in Calgary and Edmonton were by guns? Not sure why the total murder rate is being used when the discussion point of this thread is about mass shootings.

i have zero issue with people owning rifles or guns (so long as they are properly regulated)... in fact, people in canada can even own AR style weapons if they want to (66K in fact) - they just have to go through the process of getting a restricted license.

there will never be a handgun ban in the US.... legislators can't even close a loophole about background checks.
The point being that everyone is saying that the whole US is a terribly scary place to live when the country as a whole is about the same as Edmonton or Calgary in terms of likelihood to die by homicide of any kind.
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Old 08-10-2019, 06:57 AM   #691
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The point being that everyone is saying that the whole US is a terribly scary place to live when the country as a whole is about the same as Edmonton or Calgary in terms of likelihood to die by homicide of any kind.
I think your point is stubby, edgeless and obtuse.

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Old 08-10-2019, 07:16 AM   #692
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The point being that everyone is saying that the whole US is a terribly scary place to live when the country as a whole is about the same as Edmonton or Calgary in terms of likelihood to die by homicide of any kind.
Really? Does 40% of the population of Edmonton value the right to carry semi automatic rifles at Starbucks over the lives of school children?

When you go to Chinook Centre, do you constantly check where the exits are or what sort of cover is nearby? Of course not, because you're not going to be randomly murdered by a militia member. I rented a car from the Phoenix airport in 2015 and nearly had a panic attack when I saw the rental car facility was basically an empty lobby the size of a CFL field with nowhere to hide. You drive through Denver and you can feel Columbine and Aurora in your bones. Go to Kentucky and there's an armed guard in every 7/11. A tiny, unsuspecting patch of grass and a white X on the street in Dallas memorializes arguably the most consequential victim of gun violence in the 20th century, JFK.

It is not just about a murder rate. It's about being able to leave your house secure in the knowledge someone isn't going to end your life because their McDonald's order was wrong. And when people have been shown time and time again that no place is safe, no place is sacred, that's not an unreasonable fear to hold.
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Old 08-10-2019, 07:17 AM   #693
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How is everyone not scared ####less of this all day every day? How do they send their kids to school in the morning? Imagine praying your children come home alive every morning when you drop them off at school. How is anything worth that?
Because not everyone is an idiot? School shootings are incredibly rare, and schools are still the safest place a child is going to spend their day and are safer than they were 20 years ago:

https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/0...searcher-says/
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Old 08-10-2019, 07:20 AM   #694
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Really? Does 40% of the population of Edmonton value the right to carry semi automatic rifles at Starbucks over the lives of school children?

When you go to Chinook Centre, do you constantly check where the exits are or what sort of cover is nearby? Of course not, because you're not going to be randomly murdered by a militia member. I rented a car from the Phoenix airport in 2015 and nearly had a panic attack when I saw the rental car facility was basically an empty lobby the size of a CFL field with nowhere to hide. You drive through Denver and you can feel Columbine and Aurora in your bones. Go to Kentucky and there's an armed guard in every 7/11. A tiny, unsuspecting patch of grass and a white X on the street in Dallas memorializes arguably the most consequential victim of gun violence in the 20th century, JFK.

It is not just about a murder rate. It's about being able to leave your house secure in the knowledge someone isn't going to end your life because their McDonald's order was wrong. And when people have been shown time and time again that no place is safe, no place is sacred, that's not an unreasonable fear to hold.
It is completely unreasonable. Your chances of dying in a mass shooting in the US don't even register as any kind of statistical likelihood. You are far more likely to die by just about any other means than by mass shooting.
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Old 08-10-2019, 07:42 AM   #695
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It is completely unreasonable. Your chances of dying in a mass shooting in the US don't even register as any kind of statistical likelihood. You are far more likely to die by just about any other means than by mass shooting.
Terrorism doesn't produce reasonable reactions.

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Because not everyone is an idiot? School shootings are incredibly rare, and schools are still the safest place a child is going to spend their day and are safer than they were 20 years ago:

https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/0...searcher-says/
57 percent of American high school students surveyed are at least somewhat worried about a shooting at their school. This includes 64% of girls, 60% of black students, and 73% of Hispanic kids. Why do you imagine those last three groups are especially twitchy about it?

The same survey finds 63% of parents are concerned, and that concern is especially pronounced on the lower side of the economic spectrum. 83% (!!!!!!!!!) Of parents making less than $30,000/year are scared about their kids getting murdered at school. According to Google, the median individual income in the US is $31,099/year. Do the math on that one.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...their-concern/

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Old 08-10-2019, 07:44 AM   #696
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It is completely unreasonable. Your chances of dying in a mass shooting in the US don't even register as any kind of statistical likelihood. You are far more likely to die by just about any other means than by mass shooting.
Good points! Hear, that everyone, the statistics say this isn't a problem. Go ahead about your lives, there is no problem to solve.
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Old 08-10-2019, 07:52 AM   #697
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Good points! Hear, that everyone, the statistics say this isn't a problem. Go ahead about your lives, there is no problem to solve.
That it is statistically improbable to happen to 'your' child might be what gets you through the day without screaming.
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Old 08-10-2019, 07:58 AM   #698
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The one thing that stands out to be in regards to the mass shooting and gun laws is how you can buy any gun at a show without the need for a background check.

I'm not sure what to ban and what to allow and I don't think it would make much of a difference anyways, but I do think there needs to be a comprehensive background check done before you can purchase a firearm of ANY kind. If you get flagged, you have to go for a bigger check.

That is something I think most people would agree with, but the US has a serious problem passing any law right now, so good luck.
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Old 08-10-2019, 08:12 AM   #699
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Terrorism doesn't produce reasonable reactions.



57 percent of American high school students surveyed are at least somewhat worried about a shooting at their school. This includes 64% of girls, 60% of black students, and 73% of Hispanic kids. Why do you imagine those last three groups are especially twitchy about it?

The same survey finds 63% of parents are concerned, and that concern is especially pronounced on the lower side of the economic spectrum. 83% (!!!!!!!!!) Of parents making less than $30,000/year are scared about their kids getting murdered at school. According to Google, the median individual income in the US is $31,099/year. Do the math on that one.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...their-concern/
Median household income is more like $60,000, which would be a more appropriate number to use. I don't really understand that point though. The mass school shootings tend to be at suburban middle or upper middle class schools. Individual hand gun type shootings are more likely at lower income schools.

That just reinforces my belief that these shootings get a disproportionately high amount of coverage and sensationalism from cable news. That leads to people being more afraid of something that is unlikely to happen. I also think that the sensational media coverage leads to more of these events happening.

For the record, I'm perfectly ok with banning and removing any and all guns. I just think public policy should be about making a real difference to people's safety and not reacting to what gets the most coverage on the news.
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Old 08-10-2019, 08:18 AM   #700
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The one thing that stands out to be in regards to the mass shooting and gun laws is how you can buy any gun at a show without the need for a background check.

I'm not sure what to ban and what to allow and I don't think it would make much of a difference anyways, but I do think there needs to be a comprehensive background check done before you can purchase a firearm of ANY kind. If you get flagged, you have to go for a bigger check.

That is something I think most people would agree with, but the US has a serious problem passing any law right now, so good luck.
You cant buy any gun from a gun show without a background check.
All FLL dealers HAVE to perform background checks.
What you're describing is a private sale. Which happens everywhere, but gun show loophole sounds scary, so here we are.
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