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Old 07-20-2020, 02:25 PM   #941
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you'd have to assume that the bar for efficacy is much much lower for this pandemic, given the absolute insanity this thing is causing on economies people's lives world wide.

The cost of getting every person vaccinated is minimal in comparison to the wider negative economic effects. If we can get 50% of people immune, even if it's not all that cost effective, that has to be an almost automatic yes decision to make.

One thing about this vaccine though, is that it does cause substantial illness, with most recipients suffering from headaches and fever.
What happened in your life that your first worry is economy? I don't understand people who value money above human life.

Economies matter - no doubt - but not above human suffering and death.
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Old 07-20-2020, 02:51 PM   #942
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You'd have to assume that the bar for efficacy is much much lower for this pandemic, given the absolute insanity this thing is causing on economies world wide.

The cost of getting every person vaccinated is minimal in comparison to the wider negative economic effects. If we can get 50% of people immune, even if it's not all that cost effective, that has to be an almost automatic yes decision to make.

One thing about this vaccine though, is that it does cause substantial illness, with most recipients suffering from headaches and fever.
My only concern with this, and I agree it isnt enough to not do it, is that this will give ammo to the anti-vaxxers.

You know there will be people saying stuff like, "my kid had to get vaccinated to go to daycare and then they got covid anyway."

It would be too bad if this ended up reducing vaccine compliance for other serious diseases.
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Old 07-20-2020, 03:34 PM   #943
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July 17th - 165 new cases
July 18th - 106 new cases
July 19th - 97 new cases
86 hospitalizations (15 in Calgary), 17 ICU (3 in Calgary)
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Old 07-20-2020, 03:35 PM   #944
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They're going through the same steps, but I think it's fair to say some of the steps are being rushed, namely the important steps where the side-effects are measured typically over months and years before a vaccine is approved.

I think there's a lot of things you can fast-track, but when the typical monitoring phase takes a couple years, lets say, to check for adverse reactions and long-term efficacy, then I'm not sure that's something you can fast-track without risk.

Not saying the solution is "DONT TAKE THE VACCINE!!" though
Maybe this one can cure Autism!
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Old 07-20-2020, 03:36 PM   #945
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July 17th - 165 new cases
July 18th - 106 new cases
July 19th - 97 new cases
Well the one good thing is that it was going down. Hopefully that continues.
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Looks like you'll need one long before I will. May I suggest deflection king?
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Old 07-20-2020, 03:38 PM   #946
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Well the one good thing is that it was going down. Hopefully that continues.
Numbers might go up, since they will be conducting contact tracing on the new cases detected. It will be interesting to know how many cases of unknown origin are out of these new cases.
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Old 07-20-2020, 03:41 PM   #947
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What happened in your life that your first worry is economy? I don't understand people who value money above human life.

Economies matter - no doubt - but not above human suffering and death.
Thank you for clearing that up....You're such a better person than me. I see the ways....


The point is a vaccine with a low rate of efficacy, won't actually prevent many people from getting sick. When the rate of efficacy gets low enough, the costs both human economical begin to outweigh the benefits of widespread use of a vaccine.
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Old 07-20-2020, 03:45 PM   #949
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It'll continue to rise for the next couple of weeks, I think we're looking at another spike up to where we were at the end of April at least.
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Old 07-20-2020, 03:46 PM   #950
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Back to Stage 1 we go!
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Old 07-20-2020, 03:53 PM   #951
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My only concern with this, and I agree it isnt enough to not do it, is that this will give ammo to the anti-vaxxers.

You know there will be people saying stuff like, "my kid had to get vaccinated to go to daycare and then they got covid anyway."

It would be too bad if this ended up reducing vaccine compliance for other serious diseases.
The world is full of mouth-breathers, and you shouldn't hide information in fear of their hysteria.

As it stands right now, even many of the best vaccines are only 85-90% efficient, and we rely on herd immunity to prevent wide-scale spread. Even then, outbreaks occur. Over half the people who get measles in North America are vaccinated, the vaccine just didn't work on them.

Anyone who looks at information like that and decides that the solution is to vaccinate less (as opposed to more), can't really be reasoned with.

Strangely enough, the FDA has stated that their low end cut-off for a vaccine is 50% efficacy:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ve/5349964002/
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Old 07-20-2020, 03:54 PM   #952
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The youths!
https://twitter.com/user/status/1285330722052427777
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Old 07-20-2020, 03:57 PM   #953
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Well the one good thing is that it was going down. Hopefully that continues.
Not likely. The last week and a bit of daily cases have been hovering around the 100s. It will more likely go up than continue falling.
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Old 07-20-2020, 04:13 PM   #954
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Thank you for clearing that up....You're such a better person than me. I see the ways....


The point is a vaccine with a low rate of efficacy, won't actually prevent many people from getting sick. When the rate of efficacy gets low enough, the costs both human economical begin to outweigh the benefits of widespread use of a vaccine.
I'm not saying I'm any better, you just come across very cold hearted.
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Old 07-20-2020, 04:21 PM   #955
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Half the current cases in Alberta are from unknown sources. Yikes.
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Old 07-20-2020, 04:25 PM   #956
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I'm not saying I'm any better, you just come across very cold hearted.
The point of any vaccine is to help people and save lives. You wouldn't be making the vaccine at all, if that wasn't your primary goal.

Before actually implementing the vaccine, you have to look at things like economics, efficacy, side effects, etc....

I'm sorry you find that discussion "cold hearted".


Perhaps I could prefix all of my posts with the following header:

"La Flames Fan is such a great human being, and he reminds us all that we need to first and foremost accept that the human toll and our compassion for the human toll is our primary concern. I strive to have a heart as warm as his. Only with this admission can I now discuss other factors in this decision making process."

Can I just put this in my sig to save time.....no you're right that would be too complacent. I should have to type it out, with slight variations to prove I'm not just cut and pasting it in.
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Old 07-20-2020, 04:27 PM   #957
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Totally anecdotal but I've been doing weekly grocery runs every Monday since the pandemic started, at the same store, and today was without question the highest rate of mask-wearing since the pandemic started. Still room for improvement, but I'm hoping that we're maybe seeing a turning point on people treating this seriously.
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Old 07-20-2020, 04:37 PM   #958
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
The point of any vaccine is to help people and save lives. You wouldn't be making the vaccine at all, if that wasn't your primary goal.

Before actually implementing the vaccine, you have to look at things like economics, efficacy, side effects, etc....

I'm sorry you find that discussion "cold hearted".


Perhaps I could prefix all of my posts with the following header:

"La Flames Fan is such a great human being, and he reminds us all that we need to first and foremost accept that the human toll and our compassion for the human toll is our primary concern. I strive to have a heart as warm as his. Only with this admission can I now discuss other factors in this decision making process."

Can I just put this in my sig to save time.....no you're right that would be too complacent. I should have to type it out, with slight variations to prove I'm not just cut and pasting it in.
Love it. Print it baby.
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Old 07-20-2020, 04:38 PM   #959
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In my view the most important things they could do at this stage is:
- Require masks indoors
- Consider more restrictions for restaurants and bars, particularly around indoor capacities.

I know that industry is getting slaughtered, but it seems like that is where the spread is happening.
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Old 07-20-2020, 04:43 PM   #960
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Those damn youths, maskless and scantily dressed on patios and sticking their tongues in strangers mouths!

Oh well. I'll take the vacation when we revert to phase one. Please god don't shut down the parks though.. this is prime hike time!
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