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Old 06-14-2023, 01:03 PM   #17001
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New blood. They need so much new blood.
The gap in youth from trading all those 1st and 2nd round picks over the last 6 seasons has become apparent. Weíre missing several 20-24 year old talents.
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Old 06-14-2023, 01:03 PM   #17002
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Do we?
Pelletier… Darryl did a piss poor job managing him, but he’s undersized and so far has been underwhelming. He’s never had one of “those” camps where he makes someone’s decision difficult, and it’s about to be four years since he was drafted.
Pelletier has been underwhelming?

Being a PPG in the AHL at 20-21 is underwhelming? I guess being the 3rd highest scoring U-22 year old in the AHL the last two seasons is underwhelming?

He looked great at the NHL level too before Sutter decided to bench him after one bad game.

Ridiculous to think he's been underwhelming.

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Old 06-14-2023, 01:10 PM   #17003
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I never said that the Flames SHOULD sign Lindholm to that contract. I am saying it's hilarious to say other teams should give an unrealistic absolute ####ing haul for Lindholm because of how good he is in one breath and then that the Flames should not pay him like that if they want to re-sign him. Multiple posters out right saying "He's not worth that" while also agreeing he should get trade value similar to someone like Jack Eichel.
One, it's different posters saying those things. Two, exaggerating both sides just weakens your point and makes you look foolish.

Lindholm is a top line C on a crazy-good contract - that should return more - a fair bit more - than what Horvat returned.

On the other hand, the Flames are in a difficult, transition period with the roster. And they already have too many long term contracts for UFAs. So they really aren't in a good position to pay Lindholm what he is worth. I mean, they definitely need him at C, but the cap situation is a problem.

So both sides (not exaggerated) can be true at the same time.
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Old 06-14-2023, 01:17 PM   #17004
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Pelletier has been underwhelming?

Being a PPG in the AHL at 20-21 is underwhelming? I guess being the 3rd highest scoring U-22 year old in the AHL the last two seasons is underwhelming?

He looked great at the NHL level too before Sutter decided to bench him after one bad game.

Ridiculous to think he's been underwhelming.
I literally canít think of a single play heís ever been involved in.

On a team devoid of offensive talent, he didnít stand out.

Thatís what I mean when I say heís underwhelming.

He can have amazing numbers in the AHL - so does Matthew Phillips. I donít think Phillips is an NHLer either, I just donít see the skating and elusiveness necessary to succeed at his size at the highest level.

In Montreal, some no-name replacement D pancaked him to the ice (might have even been on the PP) - in 8 years, the only guy I ever saw put a clean lick on Gaudreau was Datsyuk.
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Old 06-14-2023, 01:28 PM   #17005
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Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
I literally can’t think of a single play he’s ever been involved in.

On a team devoid of offensive talent, he didn’t stand out.

That’s what I mean when I say he’s underwhelming.

He can have amazing numbers in the AHL - so does Matthew Phillips. I don’t think Phillips is an NHLer either, I just don’t see the skating and elusiveness necessary to succeed at his size at the highest level.

In Montreal, some no-name replacement D pancaked him to the ice (might have even been on the PP) - in 8 years, the only guy I ever saw put a clean lick on Gaudreau was Datsyuk.
I think you expectations of the player you want him to be are the problem here.

Pelletier will never be a Gaudreau style player. Pelletier is an all around player who contributes to every aspect of the game. Equally capable in the defensive zone than he is in the offensive zone. Sure he has skill, but he isn't going to fly up and down the ice and deke out defenders.

His bread and butter is his compete and non-stop motor. I was very impressed seeing his progress, specifically his skating. I've seen him a ton throughout his career (local kid) and you need players like him to win.

Pelletier is very important going forward and will likely be a key piece to the franchise, not every player on the team needs to score 70 points to be appreciated or effective.

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Old 06-14-2023, 01:37 PM   #17006
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Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
I literally canít think of a single play heís ever been involved in.

On a team devoid of offensive talent, he didnít stand out.

Thatís what I mean when I say heís underwhelming.

He can have amazing numbers in the AHL - so does Matthew Phillips. I donít think Phillips is an NHLer either, I just donít see the skating and elusiveness necessary to succeed at his size at the highest level.

In Montreal, some no-name replacement D pancaked him to the ice (might have even been on the PP) - in 8 years, the only guy I ever saw put a clean lick on Gaudreau was Datsyuk.

You not seeing Pelletiers positive play is a total "you" problem. There were plenty of games he willed his line into competing. In fact, I'd argue he was the key cog in getting Huberdeau out of his 1st season funk.

I think hes an NHLer and he still only the 3rd best forward prospect behind Zary and Coronato.
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Old 06-14-2023, 01:37 PM   #17007
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I think you expectations of the player you want him to be are the problem here.

Pelletier will never be a Gaudreau style player. Pelletier is an all around player who contributes to every aspect of the game. Equally capable in the defensive zone than he is in the offensive zone. Sure he has skill, but he isn't going to fly up and down the ice and deke out defenders.

His bread and butter is his compete and non-stop motor. I was very impressed seeing his progress, specifically his skating. I've seen him a ton throughout his career (local kid) and you need players like him to win.

Pelletier is very important going forward and will likely be a key piece to the franchise, not every player on the team needs to score 70 points to be appreciated or effective.
Sorry, the back half of that post is about Phillips.

Pelletier looked fine. He looked like he could take a shift, he looked like he kinda knew what he was doing.

They need some star power. They donít have it with any of their upcoming prospects, and thatís a problem.

I hope Pelletier is on the team and does well next year.
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Old 06-14-2023, 01:48 PM   #17008
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Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
I literally canít think of a single play heís ever been involved in.

On a team devoid of offensive talent, he didnít stand out.

Thatís what I mean when I say heís underwhelming.

He can have amazing numbers in the AHL - so does Matthew Phillips. I donít think Phillips is an NHLer either, I just donít see the skating and elusiveness necessary to succeed at his size at the highest level.

In Montreal, some no-name replacement D pancaked him to the ice (might have even been on the PP) - in 8 years, the only guy I ever saw put a clean lick on Gaudreau was Datsyuk.
Is it devoid of talent (suddenly)? Or was it playing a style that offered little room for creativity? On a team that was doing very little offensively, is it fair to expect him to have stood out on that team?

He's 22 and has shown good progression in his first two professional seasons. He plays with emotion, and he is a great team guy. I don't see anything underwhelming about him at all.
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Old 06-14-2023, 01:51 PM   #17009
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I feel like Pelletier could become a Riley Smith type player who's a big part of a successful team and puts up 50-65 points.
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Old 06-14-2023, 01:53 PM   #17010
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I think you expectations of the player you want him to be are the problem here.

Pelletier will never be a Gaudreau style player. Pelletier is an all around player who contributes to every aspect of the game. Equally capable in the defensive zone than he is in the offensive zone. Sure he has skill, but he isn't going to fly up and down the ice and deke out defenders.

His bread and butter is his compete and non-stop motor. I was very impressed seeing his progress, specifically his skating. I've seen him a ton throughout his career (local kid) and you need players like him to win.

Pelletier is very important going forward and will likely be a key piece to the franchise, not every player on the team needs to score 70 points to be appreciated or effective.
Pelletier is a very good player in his own right, but we need better players than him leading the way if we want to compete for the cup.

Pelletier's no Gaudreau, and Gaudreau is no MacKinnon. There are several tiers of superstardom that's needed on championship teams, that this team does not have it. Or anything close to it. I think that's what lantern is implying.
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Old 06-14-2023, 01:56 PM   #17011
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One, it's different posters saying those things. Two, exaggerating both sides just weakens your point and makes you look foolish.

Posters who were liking posts about getting "more" for Lindholm are some of the same people posting "That's too much money!" Semantics about if it was posted directly I guess. Want me to change my point to "People agreeing that Lindholm should get a massive return" instead? Not sure my over-all point changes much...

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Lindholm is a top line C on a crazy-good contract - that should return more - a fair bit more - than what Horvat returned.

He's on the exact same type of contract that Horvat was on when he was traded.


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On the other hand, the Flames are in a difficult, transition period with the roster. And they already have too many long term contracts for UFAs. So they really aren't in a good position to pay Lindholm what he is worth. I mean, they definitely need him at C, but the cap situation is a problem.

So both sides (not exaggerated) can be true at the same time.

Again, I'm not saying I'd sign him if I were the Flames (I was team trade Horvat, after all). But the responses aren't "The Flames shouldn't sign him to that". It's "That's too much money, he's only had one ppg season, he isn't worth it".
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Old 06-14-2023, 02:01 PM   #17012
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Pelletier is a Brendan Gallagher type to me. He's got offensive skill but what sets him apart is his leadership, determination, give-a-#### factor.
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Old 06-14-2023, 02:08 PM   #17013
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It will be interesting to see how Pelletier adjusts after his first taste of the NHL. I think he showed he has the skill and IQ to play in the NHL, but his size did seem to be a bit of an issue. He was really starting to take a lot of punishment as time went on and his lack of size was showing.

I like the overall outlook on him, but there are still things he needs to overcome. He probably isn't going to learn it in the AHL though, but I am keeping my expectations tempered as far as next season goes. Think he'll see some time on the 2nd line and maybe a little powerplay time, but I expect he will be sheltered a lot and play down the line up mostly.
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Old 06-14-2023, 02:13 PM   #17014
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When signing Kadri, how did Treliving not contemplate and factor in this type of contract for Lindholm coming down the pike?

It basically was a choice between Kadri or Lindholm at these prices.

He chose paying a 32 year 2nd line center $7mm a year vs paying a 29 year old 1st line center $8.5mm a year.
There is no choice here, if Lindholm will sign for $8.5M a year the Flames will keep him.
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Old 06-14-2023, 02:18 PM   #17015
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Landeskog is out for another year. Cap is projecting to go up quite a bit for 2024-25. If it's a choice between the two, I'd trade Kadri to Colorado and sign Lindholm.
I don't think Kadri has any interest now that he has moved. Sure he did when he was in Colorado but he has established a life in Calgary and has a lot of family and a large Muslim community backing him as well. He already has a SC ring and a large payday from the Flames and the coach he didn't like is gone so what is his incentive to waive his NMC? We are stuck with Kadri.
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Old 06-14-2023, 02:36 PM   #17016
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I feel like Pelletier could become a Riley Smith type player who's a big part of a successful team and puts up 50-65 points.
And that would be a great development for where we picked him (and I agree is probably heís ceiling)

And this type of player needs to be your 5th or 6th best forward

And this is the crux of the issue . When the Cornato and Pellitiers of the team are getting their 2nd contract who will be the stars/ superstars.

And during their cheap contracts I donít think the Flames have even close to the talent to actually compete for the cup

That is why signing any of our UFA doesnít align with our next (hopefully) competitive window in 3 years

This team needs to figure out how to get superstar/ star level players into the roster . Itís hard for to do.

Vegas brought in 3 star players - Eichel , Pietro, and Stone (2 trades and 1 UFA)

And none of them wanted to come to Calgary . As an organization complaining that Vegas has an unfair location advantage and feeling sorry for yourselves doesnít accomplish anything .

Start thinking outside the box , have a 5 year strategy to bring this team back to constant competitiveness , and the players will want to come (or at least you have a better chance )
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Old 06-14-2023, 03:31 PM   #17017
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any rumours?
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Old 06-14-2023, 03:34 PM   #17018
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I loved Pelletier in his games with the Flames. There was a period of 5-7 games where he was the best player on the ice. He is def one of the smartest players I have seen, the amount of take always he caused based on his forechekckng and stick position was incredible. He is the exact type of player that stars love playing with - he is firs ton the forecheck, causes turn overs in the offensive zone and finds open ice. I would bet good money that he is going to be at least a 50+ point player in the future.

When I saw him play live there were so many times he would get open but guys just did not see him, he understands the game and is a type of player that can work on any line. Plus all the great things with his work ethic, compete level and positivity on the ice. Easily the bright spot for me from the last season.

If you want to see a high IQ player just pay attention to what Pelletier does on the ice

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Old 06-14-2023, 03:46 PM   #17019
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I think Pelletier was one of the smartest player on the ice. Not only offensive also defensive. When he used to NHL speed he will be top 6 forward who can score also will have some roles in special teams. I hope we can find to find a young linemates who will play with him long time.
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Old 06-14-2023, 04:55 PM   #17020
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The gap in youth from trading all those 1st and 2nd round picks over the last 6 seasons has become apparent. Weíre missing several 20-24 year old talents.
The Flames have those guys in their system, they just haven't been given a chance and are further back in their development.

Guys like Pelletier, Corronato, and Zary would all have been given far more playing time on other teams. We don't even know what we have in Phillips. If the Flames had kept all of their picks in 2018, would the players they drafted have even gotten a chance to play?
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