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Old 06-13-2023, 01:25 PM   #16861
dino7c
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Huberdeau in a contract year outscored

Drai
Matthews
Tkachuk
Marner
Mackinnon
Kaprizov
Panarin
P. Kane

off the top of my head

He had a poor season last year (not entirely his fault) but its not like the Flames just gave him some huge contract out of nowhere.
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Old 06-13-2023, 01:25 PM   #16862
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I disagree entirely. Not sure why some people are hard on Newhook or on the 1st. Newhook is a 22 year old with 2 full seasons on a stacked offense and can't really surmount 30 points. Looks extremely pedestrian in playoffs- in fact this is the player they would be replacing in the lineup with Lindholm.

Girard gets people excited, but realistically he's a sub .5 ppg offensive dman who is short and has an injury history.

the 1st is late.

It's not a good package for a 1c to a major conference power.
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Old 06-13-2023, 01:27 PM   #16863
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Pending UFA. Look at the Horvat trade. That's probably a good comp on value we could reasonably expect.
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Old 06-13-2023, 01:28 PM   #16864
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Originally Posted by Saqe View Post
Even if they would offer that I think the Flames need a center back in a trade. Going to next year with Kadri and Backlund as your #1 & #2 centers would be laughable.
you can always move assets in another trade

take the best value for Lindholm
trade some or all in another move for what you really need
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Old 06-13-2023, 01:31 PM   #16865
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With Lindholm, Hanifin and Backlund I'm looking at teams that fell short after thinking they were a contender. Colorado needs a centre. So does NYR, who could also use some D depth. I could see the Canes wanting Hanifin back. I feel like the Kings have to be looking for prices and Kopitar's a pending UFA at 35, and his next contract will be interesting. The Kraken would be an interesting partner.
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Old 06-13-2023, 01:34 PM   #16866
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Originally Posted by Monahammer View Post
I disagree entirely. Not sure why some people are hard on Newhook or on the 1st. Newhook is a 22 year old with 2 full seasons on a stacked offense and can't really surmount 30 points. Looks extremely pedestrian in playoffs- in fact this is the player they would be replacing in the lineup with Lindholm.

Girard gets people excited, but realistically he's a sub .5 ppg offensive dman who is short and has an injury history.

the 1st is late.

It's not a good package for a 1c to a major conference power.
Colorado having a stacked offense was probably a detriment to Newhook.

He wasnít getting premium ice time including PP time.
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Old 06-13-2023, 01:36 PM   #16867
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Originally Posted by howard_the_duck View Post
Pending UFA. Look at the Horvat trade. That's probably a good comp on value we could reasonably expect.
Again. Horvat is in a different tier of player.

Horvat's career high at the time of the trade was 61 points.
Horvat has never paced for more than that total in any of his 9 NHL seasons with the exception of a 49 game stretch last year where he shot at 22%

Lindholm has an established ability to produce at a point per game rate over a substantial sample size and the skillset to compliment high end talent, Horvat hasn't.

Lindholm has been a runner up for the Selke, and has another top 10 finish to boot. Horvat does not.


Horvat is a 60 point 2C.
Lindholm a is capable 70-80 point, Selke candidate.
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Old 06-13-2023, 01:38 PM   #16868
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With Lindholm, Hanifin and Backlund I'm looking at teams that fell short after thinking they were a contender. Colorado needs a centre. So does NYR, who could also use some D depth. I could see the Canes wanting Hanifin back. I feel like the Kings have to be looking for prices and Kopitar's a pending UFA at 35, and his next contract will be interesting. The Kraken would be an interesting partner.
Kraken seem to want speed and quickness on the top 25th percentile as their identity. Iím not sure any of the above fit that bill unless theyíre making exceptions. NYR I could see as a desperate team this year to make large strides. They mess up every playoffs. Robbing them would be nice.
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Old 06-13-2023, 01:41 PM   #16869
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Even if they would offer that I think the Flames need a center back in a trade. Going to next year with Kadri and Backlund as your #1 & #2 centers would be laughable.
Depends the Flames' intentions as an org.

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Newhook isn't that good and their first is late.

Girard is the main piece and frankly isn't close to worth lindholm.

I wouldn't do the trade as stated, definitely wouldn't do it for less.
Alex Newhook is a 22 year old every day NHLer who plays a strong game at a really young age. He looks like a prime candidate to make a fantastic career as a middle six center. I am not sure what world you think "Newhook isn't that good."

Sam Girard is a 25 year old top four dman who is only going to be available because they can't pay him, Makar AND Byram. We've already seen what players of his calibre can go for and that he is signed to what is an incredibly reasonable deal means he will likely fetch more than that. If you're an Avalanche fan you can make a case it should be the Flames adding for Girard and not be completely out to lunch.

That you don't think Lindholm, a pending UFA who looks unlikely to re-sign, is worth 22 year old everyday NHL center with a lot of runway to get better and a 25 year old top four dman and a middle round pick is quite frankly a huge over estimation of what the player is worth. We've seen what a player like Lindholm is going to go for. It is likely less than Newhook and Girard.
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Old 06-13-2023, 01:43 PM   #16870
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Originally Posted by howard_the_duck View Post
Pending UFA. Look at the Horvat trade. That's probably a good comp on value we could reasonably expect.
way more than that...you are also getting this season on a bargain and not just a month or whatever
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Old 06-13-2023, 01:48 PM   #16871
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Yeah, I don't know why everyone is discounting this CURRENT season of lindholm at 4.9 million or less to a contender. That has massive value. If we eat half or take back a bad contract, he's worth way more than Horvat.

Even if we're using the Horvat trade as template, it's a better deal than what's suggested.

Beauvilier = newhook. Frankly I think beauvilier is a stronger player, had less to produce with, known for 2 way game, has wheels.

I prefer the potential of a player like Raty over a mid 20s d who has never played top 4.

1st is worse than the NYI first.

So as I said earlier, I suppose it depends on your view of the value of Girard mostly. I don't think he's that valuable and definitely don't think he's a top 4 dman here. Certainly not if we keep hanifin.
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Old 06-13-2023, 01:57 PM   #16872
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"Conroy to Lindholm Agent this morning"
Heís asking for north of $9mill isnít he?
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Old 06-13-2023, 01:58 PM   #16873
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You're not getting Newhook, Girard AND a 1st. Maybe a middle round pick.
I disagree. Let's look at a recent trade:

To NJD:
Timo Meier (50% retained, $3M)
Scott Harrington ($750K
Zacharier Emond (2018 6th rounder)
Santeri Hatakka (2019 6th rounder)
Timur Ibragimov (2019 6th rounder)
2024 5th Round Pick

To SJ:
Andrew Johnsson (2.275M)
Fabian Zetterlund ($750K - 2017 3rd rounder)
Nikita Okhotiuk (2019 2nd rounder)
Shakir Mukhamadullin (2020 1st rounder)
2023 1st round pick
2024 2nd round pick (*conditional may become 2024 1st if NJD hits EC Finals in 2024)

So, the core of the return for Timo Meier was a 1st, recent 1st, 2nd (conditionally a 1st), recent 2nd.

Newhook -> recent 1st
2023 1st -> 1st
Girard -> 2nd (conditional 1st) + recent 2nd

That's not a crazy change in value, and also Lindholm is locked in at $4.85M for the full-season whereas NJD only got Meier for 20 games + 1 playoff run + 1 year of RFA status with no contract.

I think Girard, Newhook, 1st is a solid package and not really unfair on either side.

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Huberdeau in a contract year outscored

Drai
Matthews
Tkachuk
Marner
Mackinnon
Kaprizov
Panarin
P. Kane

off the top of my head

He had a poor season last year (not entirely his fault) but its not like the Flames just gave him some huge contract out of nowhere.
Yeah, the Huberdeau contract was not an insane contract to hand out. It just looks painful because Darryl Sutter lost his mind after winning the Jack Adams and clashed with his team to pretty significant degree (and it cost him his job). I won't be worried about the Huberdeau contract for some time - I think the early years in that contract are going to be pretty dang good (and entertaining).

Last edited by ComixZone; 06-13-2023 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 06-13-2023, 02:00 PM   #16874
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Another perfect candidate for the middle pairing: Schneider from the Rangers.

Fox and Trouba are taking the top 4 RD spots. Fox is the franchise D (ugh), Trouba isn’t moving with his NMC and is captain.

I’d easily do Hanifin for 2023/2024 1st and Schneider. That’s it.

Roll with Weegar - Andersson / Zadorov - Schneider / Kylington - Tanev.

I’m a firm believer in Schneider, even to the point where he could fight Andersson for top pairing minutes down the road.
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Old 06-13-2023, 02:01 PM   #16875
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No way he would get 10.5, I can see him asking 9.5 and settling for 9 million if he gets eight years. But it's a valid point that Huberdeau's contract will drive the price up and that Lindholm would probably settle for less somewhere else.
I donít think he will get that but I also do not think he will extend here. I think his price to stay in Calgary could be at or higher than the Huberdeau deal. Lindholm fired his agent part way into his first season in Calgary likely because he was advised to take a 6 year deal opposed to a shorter one. He will want to be paid or get the best deal in the location of his choosing.

I donít think his priority is staying in Calgary
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Old 06-13-2023, 02:03 PM   #16876
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With Lindholm, Hanifin and Backlund I'm looking at teams that fell short after thinking they were a contender. Colorado needs a centre. So does NYR, who could also use some D depth. I could see the Canes wanting Hanifin back. I feel like the Kings have to be looking for prices and Kopitar's a pending UFA at 35, and his next contract will be interesting. The Kraken would be an interesting partner.
The Hurricanes need a #2 C a lot more than they need another top-4 D. Which is why they asked about Lindholm at the deadline. If he does get shopped, I expect the Hurricanes will table an offer.
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Old 06-13-2023, 02:03 PM   #16877
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Yeah, I don't know why everyone is discounting this CURRENT season of lindholm at 4.9 million or less to a contender. That has massive value. If we eat half or take back a bad contract, he's worth way more than Horvat.

Even if we're using the Horvat trade as template, it's a better deal than what's suggested.

When does he get traded? Horvat was only moved as late as he was because the Canucks were making attempts to re-sign him. As I understand it, that's the same place the Flames are at right now. Even if he was moved at the start of the season, it's unlikely the deal was worth more. We know this because we also saw what they offers were for JT Miller before the he was signed and that was for a play-off run and a full season after the fact. It was roughly the same as what was received for Horvat.



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Beauvilier = newhook. Frankly I think beauvilier is a stronger player, had less to produce with, known for 2 way game, has wheels.

Wat. Beauvillier was a cap throw in and four years older.


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I prefer the potential of a player like Raty over a mid 20s d who has never played top 4.

You prefer a mid-level prospect who has shown no progression in two seasons and has serious issues with his skating, to the point he wasn't even playing in the play-offs for the the Abbotsford Canucks, over a very clearly top four d-man who plays on a 3rd pairing to anchor it thanks to team depth?


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1st is worse than the NYI first.
The two players are significantly better.


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So as I said earlier, I suppose it depends on your view of the value of Girard mostly. I don't think he's that valuable and definitely don't think he's a top 4 dman here. Certainly not if we keep hanifin.

If the trade isn't meeting organizational needs is one thing. The value is very VERY good.
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Old 06-13-2023, 02:28 PM   #16878
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Iím not sure whatís a lot of CPís obsession with Andersson as a too dman. The guy is undersized, and loses battles in the corners and in front of the net but does well with quickness. #3 on a championship depth chart but what do I know? Heís not bad, just not a 1 or 2 in my books.
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Old 06-13-2023, 02:33 PM   #16879
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Another perfect candidate for the middle pairing: Schneider from the Rangers.

Fox and Trouba are taking the top 4 RD spots. Fox is the franchise D (ugh), Trouba isnít moving with his NMC and is captain.

Iíd easily do Hanifin for 2023/2024 1st and Schneider. Thatís it.

Roll with Weegar - Andersson / Zadorov - Schneider / Kylington - Tanev.

Iím a firm believer in Schneider, even to the point where he could fight Andersson for top pairing minutes down the road.
Love this idea
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Old 06-13-2023, 02:34 PM   #16880
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Newhook had a pretty medicore season and reading Avs fans opinions of him his value decreased significantly this season. I wouldn’t be interested in he and Girard as a package.
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