Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread

[Fuzz]

Oh, and the homicide by firearms?
CAN 1.97
US 10.54

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

Sow have a lower rate of gun ownership, and a much lower ate of death by firearm. It almost appears that having fewer guns is strongly correlated to having fewer gun related deaths.

[OBCT]

But if you zoom in further than just nation vs. nation -- either to region vs. region or state vs. province -- and continue looking at the relative homicide rates by firearms, you realize that ALL of U.S.A. is not worse than ALL of Canada. Are Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba's rates significantly different than Idaho, Montana and North Dakota's? No. Maybe there's a reason for that.

As messed up as America is in many ways, I don't think it's very worthwhile to paint every U.S. citizen (or even politician) with the same brush. Focusing in on the areas of biggest concern and understanding those causes is likely to result in more progress.

Yes, poorly legislated and/or executed gun control is a factor. But I suggest there are many others, some of which are specific to regions and demographics.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by OBCT

As messed up as America is in many ways, I don't think it's very worthwhile to paint every U.S. citizen (or even politician) with the same brush. Focusing in on the areas of biggest concern and understanding those causes is likely to result in more progress.

sure, except the NRA tells the Republicans who control congress not to do that, so they don't.

Actually, the NRA told the Republicans to unfund any agency that would want to go down this road.

weird eh.

[OBCT]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

sure, except the NRA tells the Republicans who control congress not to do that, so they don't.

Actually, the NRA told the Republicans to unfund any agency that would want to go down this road.

weird eh.

Yeah... it's a problem.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It is much lower than half that.

CAN 1.68
US 4.88

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate

I guess I've lost your point here, other than you think guns are not a problem.

If the number of deaths caused by firearms is directly, and only, correlated to the number of firearms, then why isn't our rate of deaths by firearms HALF of the US considering our ownership rate is near half?

It's almost as if there may be more to it then simply the number of firearms.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

If the number of deaths caused by firearms is directly, and only, correlated to the number of firearms, then why isn't our rate of deaths by firearms HALF of the US considering our ownership rate is near half?

It's almost as if there may be more to it then simply the number of firearms.

Yes. Unless you figure out every factor in a very complicated problem you shouldn't address the obvious one.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

If the number of deaths caused by firearms is directly, and only, correlated to the number of firearms, then why isn't our rate of deaths by firearms HALF of the US considering our ownership rate is near half?

It's almost as if there may be more to it then simply the number of firearms.

Need to find that strawman picture...

[peter12]

It is cute that people are making the ontological mistake that guns actually kill people.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by peter12

It is cute that people are making the ontological mistake that guns actually kill people.

So you're saying in the absence of guns there would still be as many murders? Or are you just being semantics guy?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

So you're saying in the absence of guns there would still be as many murders? Or are you just being semantics guy?

It's hard to say, really, but typically, a human person makes the decision to kill people, and chooses to use the gun as a tool to do the killing.

As I stated earlier, this problem is far more cultural than technocratic.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by peter12

It is cute that people are making the ontological mistake that guns actually kill people.

Right? Let's completely ignore attitudes, economical pressure, geographical and demographic variances, organized crime, and violent members of society and instead focus on the inanimate objects.

StreetPharm, we've been down this road numerous times. If you want to play legislator, by all means do so. I'll put my American hat on and play devils advocate.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by peter12

It is cute that people are making the ontological mistake that guns actually kill people.

or a van full of fertilizer, or roadside ied's or potassium chloride

[peter12]

I don't think anyone is making the argument that the United States isn't a uniquely violent society amongst advanced liberal democracies.

It is, and always has been, a culture where things are settled and decided through force.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

If the number of deaths caused by firearms is directly, and only, correlated to the number of firearms, then why isn't our rate of deaths by firearms HALF of the US considering our ownership rate is near half?

It's almost as if there may be more to it then simply the number of firearms.

It's also correlated with the type of firearms in both countries, how easy it is to acquire those weapons, and the storage requirements for them. It's a lot easier to commit a gun crime with a handgun compared to a hunting rifle. And it's a lot easier for weapons to fall into the wrong hands when they're stored in night tables rather than locked in gun safes.

When you have a country that has 4 times as many guns per capita, more than 6 times as many handguns per capita, and has little to no requirements on how guns are stored, is it really all that surprising that their gun related homicide rate is 5 times higher?

And if all of these other factors are really what's driving gun related deaths, then why are Canada and the US's overall violent crime rates similar? Why don't the "attitudes, economical pressure, geographical and demographic variances, organized crime, and violent members of society" result in things like assaults, rapes, and robberies being more prevalent in the US than in Canada? Why is it only gun related crimes that feel the impact of those factors?

[octothorp]

I think there's a fundamental problem in the way that we use stats to try to find correlation between guns and crime, in that the predominant way that gun ownership is talked about is as a number of guns per capita. To me you can draw some information of that, but it's not the most useful metric. If you've got two small towns and one has a couple enthusiasts with 100 guns each, and the other has 50 people averaging a couple guns each, you wouldn't expect them to have similar gun usage patterns, but they'd appear as almost identical communities under guns per capita metrics.

This is borne out in US statistics; while the number of guns in the US per capita continues to climb, the number of gun homicides peaked in 1993 (at 7.0 per capita) and has consistently fallen since then to 3.6 per capita. Households with guns correlates much more closely: its recent peak was also in 1993, at 53% of US households having at least 1 gun. That has fallen to 36%, with peaks and valleys that loosely correlate to the homicide rate. There are still too many other factors for this to be really strong correlation across countries, but it seems to be the far more important statistic when looking at gun violence within a single country.

[foshizzle11]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/dashcam...-car-1.4170583

Video link: http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/972717635988/

Have you guys watched the dashcam video from the police officer who shot Philando Castile? Jeronimo Yanez, the officer was found not-guilty of manslaughter (surprise!).

This kind of things just needs to stop. Make it illegal to carry and this man is still alive most likely. Things escalated far too quickly and that officer handled that situation very poorly.

Get rid of the handguns. They are only for killing people, no other reason to have one IMO.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

Have you guys watched the dashcam video from the police officer who shot Philando Castile? Jeronimo Yanez, the officer was found not-guilty of manslaughter (surprise!).

This kind of things just needs to stop. Make it illegal to carry and this man is still alive most likely. Things escalated far too quickly and that officer handled that situation very poorly.

Get rid of the handguns. They are only for killing people, no other reason to have one IMO.

I definitely wouldn't be carrying if I was black.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/dashcam...-car-1.4170583

Video link: http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/972717635988/

Have you guys watched the dashcam video from the police officer who shot Philando Castile? Jeronimo Yanez, the officer was found not-guilty of manslaughter (surprise!).

This kind of things just needs to stop. Make it illegal to carry and this man is still alive most likely. Things escalated far too quickly and that officer handled that situation very poorly.

Get rid of the handguns. They are only for killing people, no other reason to have one IMO.

Like has been said multiple times before it's truly a shock that the pro gun crowd and NRA are silent on a law abiding gun owner being executed whilst following the law completely. That dashcam footage is pretty messed up.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Like has been said multiple times before it's truly a shock that the pro gun crowd and NRA are silent on a law abiding gun owner being executed whilst following the law completely. That dashcam footage is pretty messed up.

I'm sure they are happy Trump and Sessions vowed to protect police rights and the cop walked away a free man. MAGA like the 1700's

[peter12]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

I definitely wouldn't be carrying if I was black.

Blacks and gays were some of the earliest, and strongest proponents of open-carry.