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Old 06-03-2024, 09:22 PM   #4261
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That isn't the goal. But is it better to do that, or to miss the playoffs every year?

Some fans have this idea that every season is a total failure unless their team wins the Stanley Cup. Which means that every single team fails most of the time, even the ones that have a success or two thrown in here and there. Are you one of those fans?
I am a build a team with a minimum of 2 superstars to win the cup fan. This is what it takes

Every team except St.L (and maybe Washington depending how you rank Backstrum) to win the cup in the last 20 years had 2 superstar caliber players . It will happen again this year

Flames have zero . And realistically zero in the prospect pool . Necas isn’t one . The best case is he turns into a Lindholm , and keeps the Flames from bottoming out and actually getting the picks to acquire superstars

We have no JG in the system . We have no MT

And even with those guys we accomplished next to nothing in playoff success

The only franchises over the last 20 years that are a bigger joke than us are Buffalo and Phoenix . And both look to be on the upswing

Why is it so hard for you to have a pragmatic evaluation of this franchise and what it will take to turn it around ?

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Old 06-03-2024, 09:29 PM   #4262
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Or a Nikita Kucherov. You can win a lottery and get Yakopov. Or Daigle. Or Eric Johnson. You can draft top 5 and get Sam Bennett.
This is horrendous logic. Someone can take the last 10 or 15 drafts and see how many star players were drafted in the top 5. Then do the same with later rounds for the same time period and count how many star players were drafted. I'd bet you finding a star in the top 5 is like 50% or better and outside the 1st round is less than 1%

It's insane to think you're going to build the best team in the league while refusing to use the most probable method of obtaining elite talent.
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:30 PM   #4263
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Every year I am told they are a cup threat but I'm yet to see it
I don't want this to devolve into some sort of pissing contest about different peoples definition of what a contender is, but they are 278-130-44 over the last 6 seasons and have been to the conference finals twice.

They finished 3rd overall this year with 111 points and had a 3rd best +63 goal differential.

If they aren't a legit contender, I don't know what is.

They are the very least an extremely well run organization.

I mean, during that highly successful run of seasons they've still managed to draft an absurd amount of players.
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:30 PM   #4264
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Like, in my head I have Necas and a Canes trade with CGY like this:

Necas alone: Roster player and balanced value pick 2nd-3rd round.

Necas and a salary dump (is that Kotkaniemi? I truly don't know but let's say it is for this):
Roster player , pick downgrade by 2 rounds at most.

Necas and a player for Markstrom, no picks.

I don't know if the Canes want Markstrom as they have a pretty full stable as is and Kochetkov is ready IMO for the top job. But again, I don't know.
What do we do with him in your mind? Give lots of ice time and pad his stats and flip him for a 1st and 2 2nds at the deadline ?
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:30 PM   #4265
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Necas is a right winger.
Why do you keep claiming this when over 80% of his career starts are at C?
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:30 PM   #4266
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I am a build a team with a minimum of 2 superstars to win the cup fan. This is what it takes
And if you can't get two superstars, what then? Fold the franchise?

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Flames have zero . And realistically zero in the prospect pool . Necas isn’t one . The best case is he turns into a Lindholm , and keeps the Flames from bottoming out and actually getting the picks to acquire superstars
Which side of the D does Necas play again?

With a defence corps of Weegar, Andersson, and spare parts and question marks, this team is going to be awful next year no matter who is playing forward. Neither Necas nor any other forward is going to change that.

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The only franchises over the last 20 years that are a bigger joke than us are Buffalo and Phoenix . And both look to be on the upswing
Over 20 years? I'd say Atlanta/Winnipeg was worse most of those years. Edmonton was the biggest joke going until they finally got some supporting players this year (and traded their whole future to do it). Ottawa under Melnyk was a pretty rancid joke most of the time. Florida spent years and years with about five decent players and ten fans, which is as jokey as a team can get. The Islanders, having their backup goalie as GM, were a pretty good punchline. And nobody was calling the Kiprusoff/Iginla Flames a joke, and that was well within the last 20 years.

It's most unwise, if you are going to indulge in recency bias, to specify a time frame long enough to make your bias obvious.

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Why is it so hard for you to have a pragmatic evaluation of this franchise and what it will take to turn it around ?
I do, actually. But ‘pragmatic evaluation’, contrary to your implied belief, does not mean ‘no success ever until you burn everything to the ground’.

I happen to think Conroy has got off to a very good start with what is obviously a rebuild, even if his bosses don't want him to use that word in public.
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:31 PM   #4267
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Nashville? Upper tier club?

The team that has finished either 4th or 5th in their division for five years running, and hasn't won a playoff round in that time?

I thought that was exactly the kind of mediocrity we were all supposed to hate.
They already have a base and are loaded with picks the next three years in all three rounds. hit on a couple of those picks they are the dallas model.

Our base is resting on wingers.
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:32 PM   #4268
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If you need to watch hockey to find something to complain about, maybe you should get some real trouble in your life. Some of us do this to get away from our troubles, not to go hunting for fresh ones.
man what are you even talking about.

Poster dislikes the rumour of the Flames interested in a player and now somehow we're talking about people not having real problems in their life.

Complaining about complaining - something we've seen non-stop these last 2 years. Just put me on ignore and be through with it.
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:34 PM   #4269
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They already have a base and are loaded with picks the next three years in all three rounds. hit on a couple of those picks they are the dallas model.

Our base is resting on wingers.
That doesn't make them an upper-tier club. That makes them a club with a promising future, which may or may not live up to that promise.

Both in the regular season and playoffs, Nashville has had a worse record than the Flames over the last five years. They haven't been in danger of winning anything during that time.
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:36 PM   #4270
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Why do you keep claiming this when over 80% of his career starts are at C?
He is a right winger. His numbers have been posted in an other thread.

What centres take 2 faceoffs a game? Fairly significant part of the game
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:39 PM   #4271
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That doesn't make them an upper-tier club. That makes them a club with a promising future, which may or may not live up to that promise.

Both in the regular season and playoffs, Nashville has had a worse record than the Flames over the last five years. They haven't been in danger of winning anything during that time.
Yes but i will take their current position over ours. Upper tier wrong wording but they have a full team are loaded with picks and never seem to be sellers.
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:43 PM   #4272
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He is a right winger. His numbers have been posted in an other thread.

What centres take 2 faceoffs a game? Fairly significant part of the game
Connor McDavid? And his numbers were posted in another thread, he is a centre.
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:44 PM   #4273
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Over 20 years? I'd say Atlanta/Winnipeg was worse most of those years. Edmonton was the biggest joke going until they finally got some supporting players this year (and traded their whole future to do it). Ottawa under Melnyk was a pretty rancid joke most of the time. Florida spent years and years with about five decent players and ten fans, which is as jokey as a team can get. The Islanders, having their backup goalie as GM, were a pretty good punchline. And nobody was calling the Kiprusoff/Iginla Flames a joke, and that was well within the last 20 years.

It's most unwise, if you are going to indulge in recency bias, to specify a time frame long enough to make your bias obvious.
See this is the problem - You ignore actual success and equate opinion of failure to facts, and team "character" to on ice success

The Oilers have had more playoff success in the last 20 years then the Flames. This is even with being the laughing stock of the league for 8 years. They even beat us, and now are in the cup finals

Ottawa lost in the semis and Stanley Cup finals in the last 20 years - Guess those don't count because... Melnyk? Who cares if they have ownership issues. They have had more playoff success

Florida... Holy F - They have had more success the last 2 years then the Flames in 20 seasons

Islanders went to 2 conference championship in the last 6 years. But they named a backup goalie as a GM.. HAHAH. If only they could hire the amazing management the Flames do!

News Flash - NO ONE cares about how teams win. No one in the league cares about Iginla and Kipper being good guys outside of Calgary. Stop looking for some holier then thou reason the Flames are "good"

Since the miracle run the Flames have been one of the least successful franchises in the NHL, and are set up with one of the hardest paths forward to a championship based on their current team - No stars on the team and not so bad we can (currently) tank and get 1 easily.

We have won 2 Playoff series (and one play in) series in 20 years.

We are the embarassement of the league success wise outside of Buffalo

The point of sports is to WIN (and make money) not have a team of nice guys. We also employed Bertuzzi and Marchment. We arent some magical ethical organization. We are failures. We need to accept it, look forward, and CHANGE.

You have some fear of being the "worst" - While I want them to aim to be the best.

No one remembers who finished last 10 years ago (unless you are a disgruntled Flames fan and it was EDM) but most people can remember who won the cup

Last edited by Jason14h; 06-03-2024 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:44 PM   #4274
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Paulie, Lindholm was almost exclusively used as a RW in Carolina and his initial stint with the Flames. Is he a right winger too?
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:49 PM   #4275
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Paulie, Lindholm was almost exclusively used as a RW in Carolina and his initial stint with the Flames. Is he a right winger too?
McDavid takes 10 faceoffs a game.

Lindholm was a winger here. Before being moved around during the Covid year. Switching back and forth.

Looked like they finally committing to him as #1C to starts the 21/22 season. He was good that season as the 3rd option. He hasnít great since.

He is a guy that canít carry a line. Thatís what you those players to do. Vancouver had a hard time fitting him into the lineup as well.
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:51 PM   #4276
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What do we do with him in your mind? Give lots of ice time and pad his stats and flip him for a 1st and 2 2nds at the deadline ?
Give him the opportunity to play a key role like they did with Sharangovich. Seems like a good recipe. Decide what to do afterwards.
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:51 PM   #4277
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Paulie, Lindholm was almost exclusively used as a RW in Carolina and his initial stint with the Flames. Is he a right winger too?
Is the next Lindholm what the Flames are aiming for at this point of their competitive cycle?

Trade for a Necas type player in 3-4 years.
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Old 06-03-2024, 10:08 PM   #4278
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I don't want this to devolve into some sort of pissing contest about different peoples definition of what a contender is, but they are 278-130-44 over the last 6 seasons and have been to the conference finals twice.

They finished 3rd overall this year with 111 points and had a 3rd best +63 goal differential.

If they aren't a legit contender, I don't know what is.

They are the very least an extremely well run organization.

I mean, during that highly successful run of seasons they've still managed to draft an absurd amount of players.
They can't seem to beat the big boys or put up much of a fight against them in the playoffs though
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Old 06-03-2024, 10:11 PM   #4279
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Give him the opportunity to play a key role like they did with Sharangovich. Seems like a good recipe. Decide what to do afterwards.
Difference is with Sharangovich you were buying low, which is good.

Not sure they'd be buying low with Necas
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Old 06-03-2024, 10:16 PM   #4280
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See this is the problem - You ignore actual success and equate opinion of failure to facts, and team "character" to on ice success
See, this is not the problem. You yourself called the Flames the biggest joke in the league (or one of three). That's an inherently subjective term, yet you seem to have the illusion that you are being objective.

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The Oilers have had more playoff success in the last 20 years then the Flames. This is even with being the laughing stock of the league for 8 years. They even beat us, and now are in the cup finals
You yourself admit they were a laughingstock. The Flames aren't and never really have been. They're just sort of there.

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Ottawa lost in the semis and Stanley Cup finals in the last 20 years - Guess those don't count because... Melnyk? Who cares if they have ownership issues. They have had more playoff success
Ask any Ottawa fan if they thought the occasional playoff success was worth having Melnyk in charge.

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Florida... Holy F - They have had more success the last 2 years then the Flames in 20 seasons
I see what your problem is. You think a couple of good playoff runs make up for years and years in which they had to give away tickets, because you think playoffs are the only thing that matters. That's your opinion. I happen to think it's a foolish one, because professional hockey is first and foremost a business.

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Islanders went to 2 conference championship in the last 6 years. But they named a backup goalie as a GM.. HAHAH. If only they could hire the amazing management the Flames do!
Do you recall the imbecilic moves that goalie made when he was GM? No? Then you have no business pretending that you can compare the whole league over the course of the last 20 years.

But there you go again, citing two playoff runs as if they made up for years of empty seats, constant trouble finding a place to play Ė they even had their arena condemned, for crying out loud.

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News Flash - NO ONE cares about how teams win. No one in the league cares about Iginla and Kipper being good guys outside of Calgary. Stop looking for some holier then thou reason the Flames are "good"
That's what you think I'm looking for? You're wrong, and it is frankly stupid and rude of you to assume that you know what I'm thinking. I don't know if you could even wrap your head around what I am actually thinking.

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Since the miracle run the Flames have been one of the least successful franchises in the NHL, and are set up with one of the hardest paths forward to a championship based on their current team - No stars on the team and not so bad we can (currently) tank and get 1 easily.
Have you not noticed that the team is tanking already? They just started the tank late in the season. This is a bottom-five roster in the NHL, easily.

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We have won 2 Playoff series (and one play in) series in 20 years.
Again, you assume that playoffs are the only thing that matters. Playoffsplayoffsplayoffs.

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We are the embarassement of the league success wise outside of Buffalo
According to your only criterion.

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The point of sports is to WIN (and make money) not have a team of nice guys.
No, the point of professional sports is to MAKE MONEY (and it helps to do that if you win).

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We also employed Bertuzzi and Marchment. We arent some magical ethical organization. We are failures. We need to accept it, look forward, and CHANGE.
OK, now, you are not a member of the Flames' organization and neither am I. WE are not failures because of how the team operates. But I'm beginning to think that you are thoroughly irrational to call yourself a fan of a team that you obviously hate bitterly. What's in it for you? Why the hell don't you go and follow some better team instead? You have at least 29 to choose from, by your own standards.

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You have some fear of being the "worst" - While I want them to aim to be the best.
I have no fear at all. Not my circus, not my monkeys. I just enjoy watching how it all unfolds, and what stories develop as it goes along.

Whereas you care about nothing but PLAYOFFSPLAYOFFSPLAYOFFS, and are doomed to be disappointed most of the time no matter what team you choose to be a fan of. Sounds like an awful hobby.

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No one remembers who finished last 10 years ago (unless you are a disgruntled Flames fan and it was EDM) but most people can remember who won the cup
Everyone remembers which teams were so bad for so long that they drove away their fans, went broke, and had to sell out to a different city. (Those of us who are older than dirt also remember which teams folded entirely. Anyone who thinks that can never happen again is a sucker.)

Calgary is the third smallest market in the NHL (and also the third coldest). Most players don't want to play here. Local media revenue is maxed out, and gate revenue is sharply limited, both by the size of the market and by the crumbling hunk of concrete the team plays in. At least three-quarters of the league has a significant competitive advantage over Calgary.

It would be nice if the Flames won another Stanley Cup some day, but only a fool would expect it. And only a maniac would demand it, or think that the team's managers must be incompetent because they can't deliver on a 100-to-1 shot.

You don't Ďaim to be the bestí. You wilfully chose to cheer for a team that CANNOT be the best, and then cry and whine because they aren't something they cannot be.
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