FC's 2013 NHL Draft Thread

[moon]

Is Barkov a Finn with a Russian sounding name or a Russian playing in Finland?

[Dorkmaster]

Originally Posted by moon

Is Barkov a Finn with a Russian sounding name or a Russian playing in Finland?

Dad was Russian playing in Finland. He's considered a Finn.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Lots of big centres to choose from this draft. I hope the Flames get one of them. Then they can hope for a future of Jankowski and another (hopefully) blue chip centre.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by moon

You don't need to be an expert on scouting to notice trends. Woodlief overrates American players and Button always comes out with an "odd" draft list.

I've been following Redline for years including having bought it at least 4 times. I have never noticed a trend of overrating Americans. In fact I'd say they overrate Russians if anything. You must have a long list of Americans he's overrated over the years it sounds like, care to share with us?

I have also been following Button's lists for the last few years and they aren't as "odd" as people usually make them out to be. Not sure how you'd determine that either unless you've seen these players play multiple times. What makes his list odd?

The one with odd opinions here is you.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I have also been following Button's lists for the last few years and they aren't as "odd" as people usually make them out to be. Not sure how you'd determine that either unless you've seen

Button has a bit of a "news maker" list from what I've seen. Some of his picks seem way off with popular opinion. Sometimes he'll be right and we're all shocked...at other times, the moves seem a bit unusual and his list looks like it was made by throwing darts at a wall. For example, he put Ryan Murray at 13 in his final ratings last year, listing him behind Dumba (2), Rielly (3), Reinhart (6), Finn (9), Lindholm (10), Ceci (11), and Trouba (12). Dumba, Finn, and Murray seem a bit off on that list.

Granted, I think he doesn't rate them by draft value but by another quantity...but when we look at them, moves like this seem a bit unusual.

For a look at how he seemingly read the minds of scouts, look at his 2011 list. From what I see, most of it is pretty good, Larsson aside.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by kirant

Button has a bit of a "news maker" list from what I've seen. Some of his picks seem way off with popular opinion. Sometimes he'll be right and we're all shocked...at other times, the moves seem a bit unusual and his list looks like it was made by throwing darts at a wall. For example, he put Ryan Murray at 13 in his final ratings last year, listing him behind Dumba (2), Rielly (3), Reinhart (6), Finn (9), Lindholm (10), Ceci (11), and Trouba (12). Dumba, Finn, and Murray seem a bit off on that list.

Granted, I think he doesn't rate them by draft value but by another quantity...but when we look at them, moves like this seem a bit unusual.

For a look at how he seemingly read the minds of scouts, look at his 2011 list. From what I see, most of it is pretty good, Larsson aside.

The thing is if people could see any team's draft list they'd say it was "odd" too. There is no consensus in the draft outside the top 1-5 usually so evaluating a list on whether it follows popular opinion is pointless. Button's list is usually interesting and worth looking at. People dismiss it because they think its too far off consensus but there is no consensus so that is a silly stance to take. And many teams lists are as far or further off "consensus". Which is why there are always some big surprises in the draft and several "fallers" and "risers".

As for last year I guess we'll see where Murray ends up. From what I read and saw of him he was a solid but unspectacular player and certainly not a guy I would have wanted to take top 2-3. Would not surprise me one bit if many teams didn't have Murray as the top defenseman available. I think some had Rielly as the highest.

[Vulcan]

I take Button's rankings with a grain of salt since it seems to be only one man's opinion while other lists gather info from a number of scouts. One thing I do remember is that I believe he was the first to put Jankowski as a first rounder. Maybe he had inside information from his brother, or maybe not, but it made me notice, as his list could have some indication of where the Flames are looking.

• CSS (North American skaters): 43
• McKeen’s: 37
• ISS: 55
• Craig Button: 14
• Hockey Prospectus: 36

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

The thing is if people could see any team's draft list they'd say it was "odd" too. There is no consensus in the draft outside the top 1-5 usually so evaluating a list on whether it follows popular opinion is pointless. Button's list is usually interesting and worth looking at.

Agree on most of that. I too generally like taking a look at opposing opinions.

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

As for last year I guess we'll see where Murray ends up. From what I read and saw of him he was a solid but unspectacular player and certainly not a guy I would have wanted to take top 2-3. Would not surprise me one bit if many teams didn't have Murray as the top defenseman available. I think some had Rielly as the highest.

That's exactly where Button was coming from I think: that Murray was the safest, but not necessarily the best, D in the draft. Murray is NHL ready, but probably won't be a spectacular player that you'll hang your franchise on. I see him capping off as a legitimate #2 with a 2nd pairing floor...he WILL be in the NHL someday. Rielly, by comparison, is a player who I view as a work in progress, but probably has #1 upside.

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I take Button's rankings with a grain of salt since it seems to be only one man's opinion while other lists gather info from a number of scouts. One thing I do remember is that I believe he was the first to put Jankowski as a first rounder. Maybe he had inside information from his brother, or maybe not, but it made me notice, as his list could have some indication of where the Flames are looking.

Button certainly does have a bit of inside information. I recall that he was effectively calling that the Flames could take Jankowski.

Whether or not it impacts his draft lists is another question.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I've been following Redline for years including having bought it at least 4 times. I have never noticed a trend of overrating Americans. In fact I'd say they overrate Russians if anything. You must have a long list of Americans he's overrated over the years it sounds like, care to share with us?

I have also been following Button's lists for the last few years and they aren't as "odd" as people usually make them out to be. Not sure how you'd determine that either unless you've seen these players play multiple times. What makes his list odd?

The one with odd opinions here is you.

The Redline impression is just something that I have noticed over the years. I don't keep a list of every guy I find that he overrates. Not sure why I (or anyone else) would keep a list of guys a random dude overrates every year.

I have no problem if Button has different lists but every year he seems to have some odd rankings that seem to be more headline making rather than actual true rankings. I don't think that he should have the same list as everyone else but when he consistently has odd rankings and now makes his money being an expert it does make you wonder if he isn't doing it a bit to try and use it later to show that he is so smart.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I take Button's rankings with a grain of salt since it seems to be only one man's opinion while other lists gather info from a number of scouts. One thing I do remember is that I believe he was the first to put Jankowski as a first rounder. Maybe he had inside information from his brother, or maybe not, but it made me notice, as his list could have some indication of where the Flames are looking.

He also had Tim Erixon top 10 on his list the year we took Erixon. I've theorized about the Button connections in the past and I certainly think some of the wildcards on Craig Button's list can tell us about players that Tod Button may have higher than others do. Which should make the Craig Button rankings of even more interest to Flames fans.

Definitely one of the interesting lists to keep an eye on. The more opinions you read on the draft and don't immediately dismiss the more you are going to have a good handle on which guys could go higher than some think and which could go lower.

Obviously this draft could be one of the most important for the Flames in the past couple decades if the season is lost and we end up with a premium pick.

[Dorkmaster]

Originally Posted by moon

I have no problem if Button has different lists but every year he seems to have some odd rankings that seem to be more headline making rather than actual true rankings. I don't think that he should have the same list as everyone else but when he consistently has odd rankings and now makes his money being an expert it does make you wonder if he isn't doing it a bit to try and use it later to show that he is so smart.

When I look at Button's list, its based mostly on projection and his preference for players. So he's looking at how transferable those skills are and whether they have room to grow or not. He also seems to rank potential impact players higher.

I don't think its a big deal. Its sometimes hard to rank players even knowing the outcome. Do you like Bobby Orr better or Mario Lemieux? Can't go wrong with either one but people are going to be outraged if you have one over the other.

[Freeway]

30 different teams. 30 different lists.

[FCAV]

Originally Posted by Freeway

30 different teams. 30 different lists.

That pretty much sums it up.

[FCAV]

We did our inaugural draft eligible prospects of the month. Here are the winners:

Future Considerations announced today that Spencer Martin of the Mississauga Steelheads has been named draft eligible Goaltender of the Month for October.

http://futureconsiderations.ca/marti...-of-the-month/

Future Considerations announced today that Josh Morrissey of the Prince Albert Raiders has been named draft eligible Defenseman of the Month for October.

http://futureconsiderations.ca/morri...-of-the-month/

Future Considerations announced today that Anthony Mantha of the Val d’Or Foreurs has been named Ferda Hockey draft eligible Forward of the Month for October.

http://futureconsiderations.ca/manth...-of-the-month/

[dammage79]

I remember watching barkov in the WJC last year. Liked his style and skating. After watching McKinnon in the Qjmhl/Russia game the other night. I feel this kid is going to slip. I wasn't impressed at all with his play. Hopefully the Flames can draft Barkov.

[kirant]

What's the story on Mantha? I didn't see him on many draft lists, yet had a good season last year and is off to a great start now (likely to cool off, sure, but I still imagine he'll be in the 60-65 point region).

Is he just big and soft or something?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I remember watching barkov in the WJC last year. Liked his style and skating. After watching McKinnon in the Qjmhl/Russia game the other night. I feel this kid is going to slip. I wasn't impressed at all with his play. Hopefully the Flames can draft Barkov.

I think MacKinnon is still the consensus number one. His skating is on another level. His explosiveness and lateral movement is simply unmatched.

Barkov will be an exceptional player himself, but I just don't think that any other forward in the draft has the dynamic qualities that MacKinnon possesses.

If the Flames are lucky enough to land the 1st overall pick if the season is lost, I can't think of any player that would complement Baertschi better from this draft.

My only concern would be him switching from centre to right wing... and we don't have any RW prospects either.

[moon]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I remember watching barkov in the WJC last year. Liked his style and skating. After watching McKinnon in the Qjmhl/Russia game the other night. I feel this kid is going to slip. I wasn't impressed at all with his play. Hopefully the Flames can draft Barkov.

That is a pretty tiny sample size to predict a slip when pretty much every other time the kid has played it has been to great reviews.

[FCAV]

We've released our first issue 'Introduction to the 2013 NHL Draft' Guide, as part of our season pass. In it you'll find a shwack of stuff, including:

The ‘Introduction’ gives you the essentials of the 2013 Draft with a ranking of the top-100 prospects eligible in 2013, as well as an in-depth look at the draft’s top-30 prospects, profiles on players to keep an eye on, as well as an introductory article from Dan Stewart, FC’s scouting director. The ‘Introduction’ also lays out our editorial work for the 2013 draft class, features our top-10 ranking for the 2014 NHL Draft and a glimpse into the 2015 NHL Draft.

http://futureconsiderations.ca/fc-re...013-nhl-draft/

As always, the CP faithful are entitled to their discount. Instead of subscribing through the site, be sure to get yours via this link to get your savings of almost 25%:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...=2NXRNP4HJ6ZH4

[Matty81]

I've been thinking about the lockout affecting the draft and if they do the same format as last time we will get 3 balls in the lottery and the Canucks and Oilers will only get 1.

We would have a solid shot at MacKinnon! 7 other teams with 3 balls.

Only bad news in that scenario - surprise surprise we traded away our 2nd round pick already.

Edit - just read the post earlier in the thread.... still it is a ray of sunshine in this crap. Would make more sense with the current system if they increased the baseline to 4 balls though since the minimum a team can have is 1. Lots of teams would end up with 1 and the really bad teams would increase their odds.