Even if you aren't a fan of those movies I would say they were both excellent in their roles, and moving forward without them is a huge mistake. I didn't love Thor 4 but I don't think it was the actors fault, and I can't see anyone else in the role.
Wonder Woman made ~822 million. It was a success. It is estimated to have made the studio ~253 million.
WW84 made ~170 million. It was not a success. It is estimated to have lost the studio ~100 million.
That's a hell of a coin flip for a studio mired in financial issues.
That's not a fair comparison at all, there was this thing called Covid in 2020, that shut down all theatre. The fact that it made $170 million is actually really impressive.
James Gunn Suicide Squad made $169 mill world wide and WB let him run all of DC
I think to truly get this mess organized Gunn has to start fresh, there was more bad than good with the DCEU.
Mamoa being linked to Lobo makes a lot of sense, I think that is a perfect casting job.
I do hope that they can retain some pieces, but I understand the need to get fresh faces in there to truly separate from the gong show that was the DCEU.
__________________ "In brightest day, in blackest night / No evil shall escape my sight / Let those who worship evil's might / Beware my power, Green Lantern's light!"
I think a Batman Beyond story would be a fun movie concept. But this has a chance to be a good thing for DC. I think there path to rehabilitation is;
Outside of Batman, the DC characters are generally a lot more lacking it depth, so it is a challenge, but I also would have thought Captain America was flat character 15 years ago, and he got the best trilogy of the primary Avengers. So that can be overcome.
1) Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman/Aquaman/Joker at minimum all need to be out of live action productions for minimum 5 years.
2) Start with disconnected stories, do a Arrow, Green Lantern, Shazam.... movie (hell do the green lantern without even visiting earth outside of flashbacks). Mainly just B characters that people can name, but have not fully been tainted by the current franchise. But full reset, dump the current actors, ignore the existing cannon...
3) Maximum 2 live action properties / year for at least 3 years. Make sure people have had a chance to stream the recent one before the next one comes out, so they know you are abandoning the old course, and just putting out less ambitious projects for entertainment (manage expectations).
4) Only if you have found a tone that the general public is excited about then start re-introducing the 5 or 6 big characters, max 1 / year with new Actors, and no memory of the old events.
It won't happen, first they are already charging forward with Flashpoint, second they seem to be far more concerned about putting out a slight profit in 2023 than building a champion in 2030. And there will always be those who complain that they want to keep some of what has been done so far, but you have to ignore those voices if you want to succeed. (personally I think the casting of Cavill, Gadot, and Adams, and the casting alone is just about the only thing worth keeping in the DCEU, the rest is a gut job even if you try to preserve the existing continuity, but all of those characters a tainted enough by the movies they have been in they should just be tossed with the rest).
*Bonus hire a new CGI team, and do minimum 50% practical or motion capture. What they've put out so far has not been good enough to compete with the other fantasy franchises, and the other franchises all seem to do a lot more layered graphics on top of conventional photography (even Star Wars was struggling with quality in the volume and went back to more location based filming for most of Andor, because you just can't fake depth and movement the way you can capture it.
I like Coach's idea of setting the universe in the past. It would really differentiate it from what's already been done in the DCU (other than WW). They could tie in alternate versions of real world events to connect with the audience. Similar to what X-Men First Class/Days of Future Past and the subsequent films tried to do.
With Flashpoint they have a chance to reset some things. I don't know if a full reset is necessary but a big one is.
I like Coach's idea of setting the universe in the past. It would really differentiate it from what's already been done in the DCU (other than WW). They could tie in alternate versions of real world events to connect with the audience. Similar to what X-Men First Class/Days of Future Past and the subsequent films tried to do.
With Flashpoint they have a chance to reset some things. I don't know if a full reset is necessary but a big one is.
I was thinking about this while watching Wakanda Forever. Honestly I think this is always the problem with DC vs Marvel, especially in movies, is that they can’t really. Because they are set in fictional cities with fictional histories. There’s nothing to connect with in Coast City or Metropolis. Gotham feels a bit more real but honestly I think that’s largely from Nolan’s movies and the character of Batman’s being human.
For a smaller comic audience it doesn’t matter as much, but for a larger movie audience, I think being able to tie them to real world places and history has made a difference for Marvel. It’s definitely a layer that I enjoy about them. I’d say it was a significant part of Wonder Woman’s success as well.
Interesting that Gunn is walking back on some of this and confirming other parts, but not giving us any idea which is which.
MoS2 is rumoured to be a more light hearted golden age type Superman similar to what we saw in Superman 2. I would really like to see Cavill get a chance to play golden boy Superman.
With the right director there could be some really iconic shots in there.
__________________ "In brightest day, in blackest night / No evil shall escape my sight / Let those who worship evil's might / Beware my power, Green Lantern's light!"
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