[Poll Request] Monahan Off-Season Trade Value (or negative value)

[powderjunkie]

This discussion pervades nearly every other thread, so 1 more can't hurt, and I think a poll would be interesting.

Presuming a move in the off-season with no retention. I suspect an eventual deal will involve a few players/prospects/picks so we can forever argue about the details, but in pure draft pick terms, I propose the following options:

1. Returns a 2nd or better
2. Returns a 3rd-5th
3. Negligible assets included either way (6th/7th/C-level prospects/future considerations)
4. Sweetened with a 3rd-5th
5. Sweetened with a 2nd
6. Sweetened with a 1st or better, traded with retention, or buy out


I'll offer some historical comparables for anyone looking to make an informed decision :

Spoiler!

Recent(ish) C buyouts:

Wennberg - 3x4.9M - 1/3 BO; deal was backloaded in cash so it made financial sense(441k x 3; 891k x3)

Ryan Spooner - 1x4M 1/3 BO

Antoine Vermette - 1x3.75; a perplexing BO since his prev season (the first year of a 2x3.75M deal signed by Maloney) was 17G 38P 76gp - seems like fair enough value...
He signed 2x1.75M with the Ducks 13 days later ...you would think he could have been moved at 50% retention = 1x1.875M, instead of 2x1.25M cash/cap hit from the buy out. But this was one of Chayka's first moves and perhaps the old boys didn't want to play ball.

Two Holland Specials: 37 yo Nielsen (1x5.25M) and injured Weiss (3x4.9M), presumably uninsured?

Turris - 4x6M ($2M for 8 yrs). Was bought out in 2020 at age 31. At that point:
Career: 726gp 165g 416p. Prev 2 years: 117gp 16g 54p (15:33). Career Highs: 27g (2017), 64p (2015)

Obviously Turris's term was they key detail that necessitated his buyout, but it's somewhat interesting to compare his numbers to that point with Monahan presently:
Career: 650gp 212g 461p. Prev 2 years: 109gp 18g 50p (15:53). Career Highs: 34g (2019), 82p (2019)


As for Trades, I couldn't find any examples of C's being sweetened away. Plenty examples of minor-moderate value trades though: Stastny, Stepan, Brassard, etc. Too lazy to list all of those details.

[Ashasx]

I don't see how the Flames don't give up at least a second. If the Flames manage to retain both of Gaudreau and Tkachuk, I imagine it's a 1st.

The Flames had to give up a 4th to give away half a season of Pitlick at $1.75MM.

[Mathgod]

Wouldn't be surprised if it takes a sweetener of a 2nd plus a 5th to move his contract.

That said, if he stays here for this year's playoffs and has a good showing, the sweetener amount reduces somewhat.

[Vinny01]

Too soon to say. A big playoff could change the answers given today considering this is a question for the offseason

[Harry Lime]

I'm morbidly curious as to how this poll would pan out. There is a hardcore group on here that have been Monahan detractors for a full season, and that has to wear on the general CP reader. I think that other markets see Monahan as having more value than most CPers, because Calgary fanbases love to have one player in the doghouse at all times.

I'm worried about the eventual Monahan trade, because I already see the CP stirrings of the heir apparent to be crapped on as the next Flames 'failure', and I'd rather Monahan stay around as the heel we know.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I'm morbidly curious as to how this poll would pan out. There is a hardcore group on here that have been Monahan detractors for a full season, and that has to wear on the general CP reader. I think that other markets see Monahan as having more value than most CPers, because Calgary fanbases love to have one player in the doghouse at all times.

I'm worried about the eventual Monahan trade, because I already see the CP stirrings of the heir apparent to be crapped on as the next Flames 'failure', and I'd rather Monahan stay around as the heel we know.

The real question is who starts the Legend thread.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't see how the Flames don't give up at least a second. If the Flames manage to retain both of Gaudreau and Tkachuk, I imagine it's a 1st.

The Flames had to give up a 4th to give away half a season of Pitlick at $1.75MM.

I don't think there is any chance the Flames give up a first to move one year of Monahan.

Maybe Monahan and a first for an asset the Flames actually want

[TheIronMaiden]

because the options don't have anything to say about cap ( the primary reason to move Monahan) I am not going to participate.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Monahan is staying.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I'm morbidly curious as to how this poll would pan out. There is a hardcore group on here that have been Monahan detractors for a full season, and that has to wear on the general CP reader. I think that other markets see Monahan as having more value than most CPers, because Calgary fanbases love to have one player in the doghouse at all times.

I'm worried about the eventual Monahan trade, because I already see the CP stirrings of the heir apparent to be crapped on as the next Flames 'failure', and I'd rather Monahan stay around as the heel we know.

Yep. CPers just want someone to pick on. That's why Monahan is getting criticism. No other reason at all. His play this year isn't deserving of criticism at all. Got it.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Monahan is staying.

My thoughts exactly. At least for this playoff run...winning faceoffs is actually a thing...

[flambers]

With how critical cap is to every team, Monahan has negative value.

He has a $6.375m cap hit, with another year after this one

He is currently a depth player on the Flames roster,

Likely have to add to make a deal

[FlamingHomer]

His value is way too low. I think you need to give him another year here and see if he can regain at least some of his talent.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flambers

With how critical cap is to every team, Monahan has negative value.

He has a $6.375m cap hit, with another year after this one

He is currently a depth player on the Flames roster,

Likely have to add to make a deal

The only thing is - that keeps being said about players around the league and yet I can only recall a couple instances where teams had to add to make a cap trade.

[blankall]

Isn't a buyout a better option than sending back a big asset or taking back a contract? The Flames add on another $2 million in 2023/24 but it saves 4 million next year.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by flambers

With how critical cap is to every team, Monahan has negative value.

He has a $6.375m cap hit, with another year after this one

He is currently a depth player on the Flames roster,

Likely have to add to make a deal

There are a bunch of teams where the cap isn't all that critical, especially when they move pieces out to tank for Bedard

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by blankall

Isn't a buyout a better option than sending back a big asset or taking back a contract? The Flames add on another $2 million in 2023/24 but it saves 4 million next year.

Those $2M will be crucial if this team plans to re-sign all 4 big FAs long term.

[The Cobra]

I can't see how one can predict this now, because while he clearly has negative value now, his playoff performance can and will effect that value.

If that cost ends up a first round pick, I can't imagine the Flames pay that price. They'd prefer to move out Mangiapane for a first round pick than lose one.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dino7c

There are a bunch of teams where the cap isn't all that critical, especially when they move pieces out to tank for Bedard

The cap may not be that critical, but it doesn't mean they take on unwanted cap for no cost. Arizona for one has shown they will you give them enough draft capital to do so.

But agains, let's see how the year plays out, he might have a great playoff.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blankall

Isn't a buyout a better option than sending back a big asset or taking back a contract? The Flames add on another $2 million in 2023/24 but it saves 4 million next year.

Buyout is better. Retention is better still. But buyout doesn't require a partner.

Maybe Treliving can pull a draft day deal by trading down plus Monahan.