11-07-2021, 03:47 PM
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#201
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ring of Fire
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Haha, wonderful thing to see there's still room to improve for a player who quite frankly is the 2nd best skater in the western conference.
And since the best skater in the league is up the QE2....
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"Everybody's so desperate to look smart that nobody is having fun anymore" -Jackie Redmond
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11-07-2021, 05:04 PM
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#202
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Fort McMurray
Exp:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dammage79
Haha, wonderful thing to see there's still room to improve for a player who quite frankly is the 2nd best skater in the western conference.
And since the best skater in the league is up the QE2....
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His speed is one thing, but man, his edge work is incredible! So many times he's making quick shifts while still moving that transitions the puck up the ice so efficiently. I may need to cool my excitement, but I think he could develop into our best defender very soon.
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11-07-2021, 06:02 PM
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#203
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV
Jack Han isn't a random... he's got more credentials than just about everyone on this forum.
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And...he’s 100 percent correct in his analysis.
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11-07-2021, 06:49 PM
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#204
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightslayer
Does he have more credentials than an NHL player? Was he in the NHL? I think his analysis on that play is garbage.
If the rounded glass wasn't there and it was in another part of the ice there wouldn't have been that collision.
He was trying to turn it into a 2 on 1 by taking the hit. Any random fan could see that.
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Yeah any random fan who thinks hockey hasn’t changed since 1999 and taking a hit to make a play doesn’t lead to being grossly out of position.
1. The stanchion was there.
2. It was in that part of the ice.
Look up linear crossover.
That’s the exact move he needs to improve on utilizing with his reads when he’s carrying the puck up ice either on zone entry himself or opening an outlet pass.
Yeah he’s a great skater, but the effectiveness of that skill is limited if he broadcasts the direction, pace, and play he’s going to make with minimal unpredictability.
He’s learned not to be a defensive liability and to engage in offensive attack, but he won’t be able to drive play on another level unless he starts using the tactics like linear crossover.
It’s not rocket science. It’s just building deception into his game. Wherever your toes are pointing that’s where you’re going. The brain is wired to see and predict that, and it’s easy to manipulate. A little back and forth that makes the direction of travel questionable opens up more time and space for him to work with.
Jack Han was also an assistant coach with the Leafs. He knows what’s he’s talking about and he doesn’t randomly watch games. When he sees something he uses video to empirically break down what he sees going on.
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11-07-2021, 07:12 PM
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#205
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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I think Kylington's aggressiveness on the rush is absolutely part of what makes him so effective. Look no further than the play against Dallas, where he saw an opportunity and he took it — leading directly to the game-tying goal. He's capable of making Gaudreau-esque zone entries.
That said, no player is ever perfect and we'd be remiss to dismiss the opinion of Jack Han, who's a very smart hockey mind. Kylington could stand to pick his spots sometimes. But it's critical that "sometimes" doesn't become "all the time." And I think Darryl will probably be able to coach him effectively to the point where his decision-making becomes much more refined ... and he keeps scoring.
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"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco
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11-07-2021, 07:23 PM
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#206
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Franchise Player
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Let's talk about: Oliver Kylington
Han was talking more about how he uses his skating not his skating ability IMO. If he can become more unpredictable while not giving up his aggressiveness and pure speed he will be top tier
Last edited by edslunch; 11-07-2021 at 08:25 PM.
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11-07-2021, 07:30 PM
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#207
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Calgary
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I hated this pick at first, but after a few years it was hard not to notice how much he improved (particularly in the D zone), and how far he came. I've been cheering for him to make the team for the last few seasons.
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11-07-2021, 07:42 PM
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#208
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edslunch
Han was talking more about how he uses in skating not his skating ability IMO. If he can become more unpredictable while not giving up his aggressiveness and pure speed he will be top tier
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If you combined Adam Fox and Oliver Kylington's best traits you'd probably have an Orr type talent.
Hope we see that player someday in our lifetimes. An Art Ross winning defenseman. Hopefully the Flames are the one to draft him.
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"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
Last edited by GranteedEV; 11-07-2021 at 07:47 PM.
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11-07-2021, 07:54 PM
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#209
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
I think Kylington's aggressiveness on the rush is absolutely part of what makes him so effective. Look no further than the play against Dallas, where he saw an opportunity and he took it — leading directly to the game-tying goal. He's capable of making Gaudreau-esque zone entries.
That said, no player is ever perfect and we'd be remiss to dismiss the opinion of Jack Han, who's a very smart hockey mind. Kylington could stand to pick his spots sometimes. But it's critical that "sometimes" doesn't become "all the time." And I think Darryl will probably be able to coach him effectively to the point where his decision-making becomes much more refined ... and he keeps scoring.
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This is exactly it. It’s great that he’s developing hockey sense acuities to see time and space to exploit.
I also think he more than capable of dynamic zone entries. Right now he’s able to take teams by surprise, but that won’t last long. As he is coming into his own teams will be building a game plan for him and his tendencies.
I also think Ryan Huska and the coaching staff know all this as well and will help him iterate, adapt, and improve.
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11-07-2021, 08:36 PM
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#210
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
I think Kylington's aggressiveness on the rush is absolutely part of what makes him so effective. Look no further than the play against Dallas, where he saw an opportunity and he took it — leading directly to the game-tying goal. He's capable of making Gaudreau-esque zone entries.
That said, no player is ever perfect and we'd be remiss to dismiss the opinion of Jack Han, who's a very smart hockey mind. Kylington could stand to pick his spots sometimes. But it's critical that "sometimes" doesn't become "all the time." And I think Darryl will probably be able to coach him effectively to the point where his decision-making becomes much more refined ... and he keeps scoring.
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Good point.
In terms of fast skaters, if you go from one extreme to the other, you’d have mcdavid on one end who can deke and subtly shift direction at top speed and then you’d have like a Matthew Lombardi guy who may be equally as fast in a straight line but has none of the dynamic movements while at top speed.
Kylington is more at the Lombardi end of the scale now. It’s a better time to be that type of skater now just because the league has eliminated killshot hits to head and there just isn’t very many physical defensemen playing these days. Also better to be a defenseman with that skating style because you are almost always facing the defenders when you get the puck near defenders.
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11-07-2021, 08:46 PM
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#211
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Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMoss
Good point.
In terms of fast skaters, if you go from one extreme to the other, you’d have mcdavid on one end who can deke and subtly shift direction at top speed and then you’d have like a Matthew Lombardi guy who may be equally as fast in a straight line but has none of the dynamic movements while at top speed.
Kylington is more at the Lombardi end of the scale now. It’s a better time to be that type of skater now just because the league has eliminated killshot hits to head and there just isn’t very many physical defensemen playing these days. Also better to be a defenseman with that skating style because you are almost always facing the defenders when you get the puck near defenders.
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Kylington's puck-skills and his vision are a million times better than Lombardi's. Lombardi's problem was being able to think the game and make plays at the same speed that he skated. It appears that Kylington will likely not have that same problem.
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11-07-2021, 08:50 PM
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#212
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMoss
Kylington is more at the Lombardi end of the scale now. It’s a better time to be that type of skater now just because the league has eliminated killshot hits to head and there just isn’t very many physical defensemen playing these days. Also better to be a defenseman with that skating style because you are almost always facing the defenders when you get the puck near defenders.
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I think you're taking your assessment too far into the other extreme. Kylington's a pretty deceptive and dynamic player with the puck. Moreso than, for instance two of our other best skaters Dillon Dube and Noah Hanifin.
Sometimes when you're fast as heck though you can afford to be a bull in a china shop to keep opponents honest. For all the flack Taylor Hall used to get about toedrags, a lot of his most consistently effective plays were just straight line drives through the left wing himself.
I don't think Kylington has his the peak of his development yet - but Matthew Lombardi? I just.. can't agree with that. Even in the AHL there were deceptive plays Kylington would make that reminded me of Gaudreau.
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"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
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11-07-2021, 08:52 PM
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#213
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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I am really glad that Kylington is working out. He teased with so much talent that I figured it was only a matter of time. I am still surprised that Seattle preferred to take a 38 year old Gio over taking a shot on Kylington.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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11-07-2021, 09:00 PM
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#214
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
The FAN 960 did a long interview with Håkan Loob the year Kylington was drafted. He said, in effect, that Kylington is a player who needs steady coaching, and his stock fell in his draft year because he was bounced from team to team and never got to settle in with one coach or one system.
The carousel of replacement-level coaches in Calgary must have been terrible for Kylington's development. Having a top-flight coach like Sutter come in and spell out exactly how he needs to work on his game, it appears, is just what the doctor ordered.
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This and many other examples makes the defence of Flames coaching hires over the past few years utterly baffling. It was as obvious at the time as it is now.
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11-07-2021, 09:04 PM
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#215
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
This and many other examples makes the defence of Flames coaching hires over the past few years utterly baffling. It was as obvious at the time as it is now.
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In this particular matter, it wasn't so much the quality of the coaches as the sheer amount of turnover. Peters might have worked out all right if he hadn't been such a career arsehole that he had to get canned. Ward was a decent assistant who got stuck with a job he couldn't handle. The only real management fail was Gulutzan.
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11-07-2021, 09:11 PM
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#216
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
In this particular matter, it wasn't so much the quality of the coaches as the sheer amount of turnover. Peters might have worked out all right if he hadn't been such a career arsehole that he had to get canned. Ward was a decent assistant who got stuck with a job he couldn't handle. The only real management fail was Gulutzan.
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If Ward was a decent assistant who got stuck with a job he couldn't handle then that is a failed coaching hire that shouldn't have been there. Not trying to be too harsh on Trelving, but looking at it bluntly, coaching hires has very clearly been his Achilles heal and Ward absolutely goes on the failure side.
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11-07-2021, 09:13 PM
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#217
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Not specific to Kylington, but Bill Peters is the guy who kept Eric Staal, Sebastian Aho, Elias Lindholm and Sam Bennett on the wing fulltime.
We'd probably still have Dube and Lindholm on the wing if he were still around.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
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11-07-2021, 09:14 PM
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#218
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
If Ward was a decent assistant who got stuck with a job he couldn't handle then that is a failed coaching hire that shouldn't have been there.
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Ward was hired as an assistant, which was the proper place to slot him. He would never have been made head coach even temporarily if the Peters thing hadn't blown up the way it did.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Ward was only re-upped at the beginning of last season because the Flames were trying to bring in Sutter and he wasn't ready to say yes yet.
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WARNING: The preceding message may not have been processed in a sarcasm-free facility.
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11-07-2021, 09:20 PM
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#219
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
Ward was hired as an assistant, which was the proper place to slot him. He would never have been made head coach even temporarily if the Peters thing hadn't blown up the way it did.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Ward was only re-upped at the beginning of last season because the Flames were trying to bring in Sutter and he wasn't ready to say yes yet.
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Speculation about waiting for Sutter aside, they had a poor promotion that they rode out for the entire rest of the season and then re-upped him to the team's detriment. Not sure why the pushback on suggesting Ward was part of the coaching hire failures of this franchise the past few years when he clearly was.
I mean if they promoted him out of desperation and then cut ties in the off season then I'd maybe not count it, but that's not what they did.
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11-07-2021, 09:24 PM
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#220
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
I mean if they promoted him out of desperation and then cut ties in the off season then I'd maybe not count it, but that's not what they did.
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My belief is that they promoted him out of desperation and left him in place because the man they wanted to hire wouldn't take the job during the off season. I think they fully expected to fire a head coach as soon as they could come to terms with Sutter, and it wasn't worth the trouble and expense of hiring yet another lame duck.
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