[GDT] Preseason #7. Flames @ Jets 6pm MT. calgaryflames.com

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I have no issues with the d pairings because if Tanev and Zadorov is as bad a match as they looked last game then tonight will help seal that for the coaches.

They've had some rough shifts but as a whole they actually haven't been that bad together.

TOI: 20:01
Corsi For: 55.8%
xGF%: 60.1%
Offensive Zone: 33.3%

Those are actually pretty good numbers through a couple games, especially with pretty heavy defensive zone starts.

And the big thing is that Hanifin - Andersson tends to work...where Zadorov - Andersson was just terrible.

Zadorov+Andersson

TOI: 40:40
Corsi For: 30.8%
xGF%: 20.6%
Offensive Zone Start: 37.50

So if the coaching staff sees Hanifin, Tanev, Zadorov, Andersson as our top 4...then Zadorov-Tanev, and Hanifin-Andersson is really the only choice at this point. Depending how the season goes then I think you could see one of Kylington/Valimaki replace Zadorov in the top 4. But this is the top 4 to start I think.

[Calgary4LIfe]

How many bona fide top 4 defencemen does Calgary have? I count 2 - Hanifin and Tanev. Can't put them on the same pairing, or you make the 2nd pairing too weak/inexperienced/slow.


How is this team going to improve when it comes to the backend? Players are going to have to take a step forward this year, period. I am looking at Kylington continuing to do what he has shown so far in the preseason - but do that in the regular season when it gets a bit harder, and/or I expect Valimaki to take a step forward, and/or I expect Andersson to take a step forward.


I expect Zadorov - especially playing under Sutter - to become a reliable defensive defencemen, and to stop giving the puck away. He will settle down. Not everyone ramps up their game at the same speed, and given that he has changed cities, teams, systems and teammates - I will give him the benefit of the doubt.



I expect Gudbranson to be mostly good on the third pairing defensively. You have to really dislike him personally to continue saying he sucks - he has improved. On every team that he has played on the bottom pairing, those fanbases liked him as they thought he was fairly good at his role. That's what he will be here too. He will be fine.


You still have one more vet that did very well under Sutter last season in Stone. You still have one more younger player in Mackey that was improving under Sutter last season too. Plus there is Kinnvall who is injured, but could have been another player really shining and making another argument.


I think this will all get sorted. I am worried with a Zadorov-Tanev pairing, that this team will be slow in transition as neither makes a really good first pass either. I am worried about Andersson on the top pairing being further exposed, and forcing Hanifin to worry about covering for too much to the detriment of his game. There are legitimate things to worry about.


However, this is how I sleep at night. We have Sutter.


If we had Gulutzan or Ward, I would be having nightmares. Sutter will find a way to make it work, and there is enough depth to find the right pairings. This is a competition. Sutter is NOT afraid to sit vets and replace them with young kids. He is not adverse to calling out his vets. He will find a way to get this group of D to work well enough. Can they score and transition enough? We will see - it will have to come by committee, but with Kylington's step forward this year, it gives me hope that there will be enough steps throughout the defensive corps that they will get it done.


Yes, Zadorov has looked awful. There is no sugar-coating it. However, I think Sutter is the right fit for him, and that's what I said when the Flames acquired him. I will be surprised if he continues his poor play for very much longer.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

How many bona fide top 4 defencemen does Calgary have? I count 2 - Hanifin and Tanev. Can't put them on the same pairing, or you make the 2nd pairing too weak/inexperienced/slow.


How is this team going to improve when it comes to the backend? Players are going to have to take a step forward this year, period. I am looking at Kylington continuing to do what he has shown so far in the preseason - but do that in the regular season when it gets a bit harder, and/or I expect Valimaki to take a step forward, and/or I expect Andersson to take a step forward.


I expect Zadorov - especially playing under Sutter - to become a reliable defensive defencemen, and to stop giving the puck away. He will settle down. Not everyone ramps up their game at the same speed, and given that he has changed cities, teams, systems and teammates - I will give him the benefit of the doubt.



I expect Gudbranson to be mostly good on the third pairing defensively. You have to really dislike him personally to continue saying he sucks - he has improved. On every team that he has played on the bottom pairing, those fanbases liked him as they thought he was fairly good at his role. That's what he will be here too. He will be fine.


You still have one more vet that did very well under Sutter last season in Stone. You still have one more younger player in Mackey that was improving under Sutter last season too. Plus there is Kinnvall who is injured, but could have been another player really shining and making another argument.


I think this will all get sorted. I am worried with a Zadorov-Tanev pairing, that this team will be slow in transition as neither makes a really good first pass either. I am worried about Andersson on the top pairing being further exposed, and forcing Hanifin to worry about covering for too much to the detriment of his game. There are legitimate things to worry about.


However, this is how I sleep at night. We have Sutter.


If we had Gulutzan or Ward, I would be having nightmares. Sutter will find a way to make it work, and there is enough depth to find the right pairings. This is a competition. Sutter is NOT afraid to sit vets and replace them with young kids. He is not adverse to calling out his vets. He will find a way to get this group of D to work well enough. Can they score and transition enough? We will see - it will have to come by committee, but with Kylington's step forward this year, it gives me hope that there will be enough steps throughout the defensive corps that they will get it done.


Yes, Zadorov has looked awful. There is no sugar-coating it. However, I think Sutter is the right fit for him, and that's what I said when the Flames acquired him. I will be surprised if he continues his poor play for very much longer.

You will be disappointed and no, he hasn't improved.

He is by nearly every metric one of the worst, if not the the worst period, defensemen in the NHL.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

They've had some rough shifts but as a whole they actually haven't been that bad together.

TOI: 20:01
Corsi For: 55.8%
xGF%: 60.1%
Offensive Zone: 33.3%

Those are actually pretty good numbers through a couple games, especially with pretty heavy defensive zone starts.

So putting them together isn't dumb?

I kid ... I kid.

The available dmen pile wasn't all that strong this summer. Some teams over paid for their help, others added what they could in serviceable NHL defenseman.

Hoping Zadorov under Sutter can take a step in becoming a shut down guy.

[Zevo]

Sutter explains here how he plans to use defenseman in pairings and how he doesn't see Kylington as a top 4 D. Needs to limit turnovers to stay in the lineup and is the reason he hasn't stuck so far. Makes sense to me. Defenseman talk starts around the .55 second mark.

https://www.nhl.com/flames/video/pre...7092/c-9096402

[Wish They Could Win]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Sutter explains here how he plans to use defenseman in pairings and how he doesn't see Kyllington as a top 4 D. Needs to limit turnovers to stay in the lineup and is the reason he hasn't stuck so far. Makes sense to me. Defenseman talk starts around the .55 second mark.

https://www.nhl.com/flames/video/pre...7092/c-9096402

He also basically says that for Stone to get in the lineup, Valimaki has to step up his game to elevate the pair. Sounds like what you see tonight is the defense to open the regular season unless Kylington screws up a bunch. Its also pretty clear they are going to run with 8 defensemen setup as pairs to start the season.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Wish They Could Win

He also basically says that for Stone to get in the lineup, Valimaki has to step up his game to elevate the pair. Sounds like what you see tonight is the defense to open the regular season unless Kylington screws up a bunch. Its also pretty clear they are going to run with 8 defensemen setup as pairs to start the season.

Yeah that's super interesting.

The man doesn't like giving praise to young players. He gives praise through opportunity, but even when asked he deflects away from the positive for the inexperienced.

Sounds like the top four is decided, and Kylington Gubranson are the rest of the six to start the season as it stands.

[FanIn80]

I don't uderstand the turnovers argument. Unless I'm just incredibly biased... Andersson, Zadorov and Gudbranson have turned the puck over a lot more than Kylington has. How is he "not a top four" and "fighting to make the lineup" and "the reason he doesn't play is because of his turnovers," when Zadorov is literally on the top pairing?

Really? We have a grand total of ONE defenceman that can carry the puck through the nutral zone with speed and effectiveness, but his 1-2 turnovers a game keeps him in the pressbox so he can watch Zadorov and Andersson cough the puck up 1-2 times each period?

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I don't uderstand the turnovers argument. Unless I'm just incredibly biased... Andersson, Zadorov and Gudbranson have turned the puck over a lot more than Kylington has. How is he "not a top four" and "fighting to make the lineup" and "the reason he doesn't play is because of his turnovers," when Zadorov is literally on the top pairing?

Really? We have a grand total of ONE defenceman that can carry the puck through the nutral zone with speed and effectiveness, but his 1-2 turnovers a game keeps him in the pressbox so he can watch Zadorov and Andersson cough the puck up 1-2 times each period?

I don't think he's talking about just this pre-season. That has always been the knock on Kylington...too many high risk plays or passes.

[Wish They Could Win]

Also, pairing up young guys with experienced guys and making them work as a pair puts the onus on the experienced guy to help the young guy get better if they want to be in the lineup. I like it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I don't uderstand the turnovers argument. Unless I'm just incredibly biased... Andersson, Zadorov and Gudbranson have turned the puck over a lot more than Kylington has. How is he "not a top four" and "fighting to make the lineup" and "the reason he doesn't play is because of his turnovers," when Zadorov is literally on the top pairing?

Really? We have a grand total of ONE defenceman that can carry the puck through the nutral zone with speed and effectiveness, but his 1-2 turnovers a game keeps him in the pressbox so he can watch Zadorov and Andersson cough the puck up 1-2 times each period?

I am pretty sure that when Sutter is talking about turnovers and connecting that to Kylington's inability to stay in the lineup it is with reference to his past few seasons, and not on his current camp performance. He was responding to a question specifically about "the growth [he] has seen in Kylington in camp." It is not an indictment; on the contrary, Sutter also states pretty clearly that Kylington is in his top-six to start the season, which would also show that his good performance at camp has not gone unnoticed, and that the coaches see a dramatic improvement in his play from last year and beyond.

Also, it's "nütrl zone."

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah that's super interesting.

The man doesn't like giving praise to young players. He gives praise through opportunity, but even when asked he deflects away from the positive for the inexperienced.

Sounds like the top four is decided, and Kylington Gubranson are the rest of the six to start the season as it stands.

I've always found that Sutter answers media questions with what he thinks the player or team needs to hear, not necessarily how he really feels about it.

The message to Kylington appears to be: "we've liked your habits in camp", "you've earned a chance to start on the roster" and "Valimaki-Stone are coming for you and Gudbranson if you revert to the old habits that kept you out of the line-up last year".

I suspect it's virtually the same message to Valimaki (different habits though) and the pairs will rotate fairly often.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

I believe the game is also on NHL centre ice, which is offering a free preview on Shaw right now.

What channel is that? Thanks in advance.

[SuperMatt18]

Also Sutter has always been a "Praise a player who is struggling" and "Critique a player who is playing well" type of coach.

Always been his way of not letting the team/player get too high on themselves when things are going good, and not letting the team get too low when things are bad.

So probably just a way to put a bit of pressure on Kylington again after he's heard nothing but praise from the media this pre-season.

[MrMike]

Winnipeg really revamped their D. Finally have actual NHLers

[Goriders]

Anyone else think valamaki is being supplanted by kylington?

Also looking like they are giving Dube a shot at center. Or at least emergency center.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

What channel is that? Thanks in advance.

621 on Shaw blue curve.

[ComixZone]

Not sure I agree with Darryl. He's criticizing Kylington for turnovers, but has Zadarov in his top-4, and on the flip side I do like that he does separate the three from everyone else (Tanev, Hanifin, and Andersson I assume).

...but Zadarov and Tanev as a pair? Or Zadarov and Andersson? Just not a fan, and I think the results will be poor - but the make-up of the defence is ugly. For this team to make the playoffs, I think Kylington or Valimaki need to establish themselves as top-4 defencemen.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I like the idea of playing Kylington with Gudbranson. He looked great with Tanev, but now let's see how he looks playing with a lower end guy. Hopefully he can still stand out. I really want him to make it this season.

Does Sutter? I mean he put him with Gudbranson.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Looking forward to seeing what Walker Duehr does.

I mean, yeah, he's a rookie trying to crack the lineup but he's older than most and as an unheralded free agent out of college, it's a cool story.

Players are signed to play for Calgary, not Stockton after all.