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Originally Posted by MarchHare
Nowhere in the text you quoted does Girlysports state that she would like to see any religion outlawed or religious practices/beliefs banned by the state. Even if she chooses to express a negative opinion of those who believe in a supernatural god, she's not in any way attempting to coerce anyone to conform to her convictions.
When you trumpet your own belief and then trash another in the same post it comes across as holier than thou. My opinion of course.
Originally Posted by TSXCman
This may come back in an extreme manner, but has anyone else ever found that faith is a way to be lazy about seeking an explanation? Like a way to give comfort about giving up. find it to be extremely ignorant.
"God did it" is not an answer. With time, everything can be explained with science.
The day we stop searching for answers is the day we stop moving forward as a society, IMO.
This is probably the reason why I have never officially been affiliated with any religion. In the end, I'm simply ok with saying "I don't know" when dealing with the big questions of the universe and life, but to put a finite explanation on the infinite is just ridiculous.
I've had conversations with my brother about this very subject (my brother is a born-again christian) and he always tells me that nobody should claim to have finite ideas of god since he is infinite. It's the awareness of just how infinite everything is that gives him proof that god exists in the first place, and the fact there seems to be some order in the chaos that allows for life.
The problem comes whenever we talk about the bible because he still lives by it even though he knows it is written by men who are fallible and likely to have some sort of political agenda at the time. No matter what he has said, logically you can't convince me that is the "word of god".
Anyway, the thing is, the universe is a completely overwhelming and scary place for the average mortal being, so having a coping system to deal with just how vast and impossible it all seems is a good thing for the human psyche. I love science and everything that it brings to the table, but even when you get into the theoretical science that tries to explain how the universe was created, currently works, and will eventually expire, it's little more than fantastic imaginations and things that seem like magic (dark matter? Invisible mass that exists to take up space and create gravity and the framework of galaxies...unless of course our math is wrong ), well how is that any better than some of the stories in the bible trying to explain how humanity got to where it is today?
Nope, as far as I can see, it's really just whatever ridiculous explanation you're most comfortable with because nobody really has the answer; and if they tell you they do, they're selling you something.
Me, I will go on being uncomfortable with not knowing.
I will go on being excited for every new discovery that science brings to our understanding of the universe.
I will continue to use my judeo-christian ethics and morals to navigate my way through relationships with other humans and this planet.
I will use my daoist and buddhist philosophical leanings to help explain and deal with my existential dilemmas.
And, I will strive to be happy in the face of everything that tries to bring me down in this world.
I leave you with Patton talking about "sky cake". Enjoy
NSFW!
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Originally Posted by ResAlien
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
Last edited by Cali Panthers Fan; 02-22-2013 at 10:19 PM.
When you trumpet your own belief and then trash another in the same post it comes across as holier than thou. My opinion of course.
I did not think that I trumpeted my own belief.
I'm open to the origin of everything sprang from some god-like supreme force only in the sense that I can't disprove it. I don't think it's necessary to use a miracle as a placeholder for the questions that science hasn't answered yet and I'm sure that it's dangerous. The problem with it is that it's not enough for most people to simply believe that a miracle set nature into motion. They feel it necessary to define that miracle and then pretend that they're made in it's image and it loves them and it roots for their country in wars and cares who they have sex with and in what position.
I'm not arguing that you have to hate anyone for their beliefs. Just that you shouldn't feel the need to respect their beliefs just because it's what they believe. Mostly everyone I know is religious and I not only like but adore most of them. It's just that respecting their beliefs is a little too close to validating them. Irrationality is a dangerous thing in this world whether you're talking about God or not. When you have something as powerful as religion that demands the suspension of reason, it leads to awful things happening to lots of people.
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Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
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Originally Posted by MarchHare
That's not the same as imposing her beliefs on others.
When GS or someone else for that matter can prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that a God does not exist, i'll be willing take a side. Until them i'm quite happy to sit on the fence with an open mind.
I loathe the smug superiority that comes from either athiests or thiests.
I don't feel any particular need to go into the reasons I don't believe in any god, of any religion, or why I have no use for religion - it's just what it is. *shrug* I don't think any less of a person for what they believe in. If it makes you (general you, not specific you) happy, brings you joy or peace or however it makes you feel - that's awesome and I am happy for you. Faith, belief, religion - it just is very much not for me. If asked, I will tell you that, or if something like this thread comes up, and there is discussion about it, I will say just what I've said.
When I was losing my faith/belief structure, questioning it, the most support for keeping it came from a very dear friend who was a staunch atheist (not staunch as in almost fundamentalist about it, like I know some can be - just staunch as in, he was firm about who he was and what he felt about religion/god/gods). He was quite amazing about it, actually and I will always be grateful to him for the wonderful person he was during that time.
prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that a God does not exist
This is a logical fallacy; one cannot prove a negative. Since you claim to have an open mind about this, I suggest reading the wikipedia article about Russell's teapot.
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Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
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Originally Posted by GirlySports
I did not think that I trumpeted my own belief.
I would think that if someone is confident in thier view they shouldn't have to mock the other side. I guess I don't understand why you felt the need to state what you believe and then post your negivity towards religion.
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I'm open to the origin of everything sprang from some god-like supreme force only in the sense that I can't disprove it.
It's good to hear you have an open mind. My faith in you has been restored
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I don't think it's necessary to use a miracle as a placeholder for the questions that science hasn't answered yet and I'm sure that it's dangerous.
I would agree that's dangerous. I would also hope that people question the best guess science has on how the universe is created. We should always be opened minded and continuing our search for answers.
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The problem with it is that it's not enough for most people to simply believe that a miracle set nature into motion. They feel it necessary to define that miracle and then pretend that they're made in it's image and it loves them and it roots for their country in wars and cares who they have sex with and in what position.
This is where I would seperate God from organised relgion. Churches throughout history have a done alot of bad things in the supposed name of God and have alot to apologise for. The extremists in any religion scare me as they feel no remorse for what they do and use thier God as a justification for thier actions.
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I'm not arguing that you have to hate anyone for their beliefs. Just that you shouldn't feel the need to respect their beliefs just because it's what they believe. Mostly everyone I know is religious and I not only like but adore most of them. It's just that respecting their beliefs is a little too close to validating them. Irrationality is a dangerous thing in this world whether you're talking about God or not.
Don't put them down just accept they have faith and be happy for them. That's what I suspect they would ask from you.
If what they believe gives them peace and a sense of purpose i'm not going to invalidate what they believe. Who am I to argue what is right or wrong.
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When you have something as powerful as religion that demands the suspension of reason, it leads to awful things happening to lots of people.
You assume that everyone doesn't question thier faith or beliefs which is not true. Membership in any church is not a constant as there will always be people leaving. I was once a member of an Evangelical church and left after 12 years. Let's just say I lost faith that the church and organised religion will always do the right thing. It's how they interperet the Bible, it's verses and how the resulting actions affect the world and it's members in a very negitive way.
As an atheist, my biggest issue with religion is that it takes my ability to reason with the individual completely off the table:
Me: "I think homosexuals should be able to marry because if two people love each other and wish to formalize that bond, so be it."
Religious person: "Homosexuality is an abomination and should not be condoned."
Me: "On what reasoned basis is homosexuality an abomination?"
Religious person: "My book says it is."
Me: *cry*
If it wasn't for Christian/Mormon condemnation of homosexuality, do you think Prop 8 gets passed in California?
If your belief in God, or gods, or Flying Spaghetti Monsters still allows you to base your morality on reason and logic, then all the power to ya. If you want to believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter bunny... I just don't care. My issue is when someone says "the tooth fairy wrote this amazing book that says we should hate people X and therefore I hate people X."
And this goes for any morality issue, be it Muslim treatment of women, Catholic's view on abortion, Mormon view of homosexuality... When someone bases their whole morality on a religious tome, it just makes me cringe because you cannot reason them out of their hurtful views. No amount of logic, science and fact can change the words written in a book.
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I sometimes wish that all religions could just disappear as they so frequently accompany hopelessly unscientific thinking about the world that only serves to support ignorance and action that is out of sync with reality. In more reasonable times however I recognize that blaming religion for people embracing ignorance and associated negative character traits is as backwards as blaming flowers for bees' attraction to them.
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JohnnyB: I don't buy that. I think hatred is TAUGHT. Leave a white child, black child and Asian child in a room with a bunch of toys they will play fine together.
I think perfectly reasonable people that without the influence of the church would have grown up to treat all people with respect, but because their parents brought them up with religion, their misgivings are learned.
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I would think that if someone is confident in thier view they shouldn't have to mock the other side. I guess I don't understand why you felt the need to state what you believe and then post your negivity towards religion.
I don't think I'm mocking the other side but questioning it. I posted articles that seem crazy to me. How did it become this way? You said you left after 12 years, but other people make it stronger.
If my husband has an affair, it's my fault because I'm ugly.
China is on the opposite side, no religion is allowed unless it's the "normal religious activity" the government sponsors.
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A Clarksville man said that he quit his job last week in order to save his soul.
Walter Slonopas, 52, resigned as a maintenance worker at Contech Casting LLC in Clarksville after his W-2 tax form was stamped with the number 666.
This is not the first time something like this happened to him at work, so I bet someone is messing with him.
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And this goes for any morality issue, be it Muslim treatment of women, Catholic's view on abortion, Mormon view of homosexuality... When someone bases their whole morality on a religious tome, it just makes me cringe because you cannot reason them out of their hurtful views. No amount of logic, science and fact can change the words written in a book.
It isn't even the words written in the book, they are obscure passages in the book which have been warped into fitting the social constructs of the day.
), well how is that any better than some of the stories in the bible trying to explain how humanity got to where it is today?
