[OOT] November 17, just three games.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Money talks.

He should have been signed before he hit free agency. How many 4th liners test the market willingly?

It does but if you want to play closer to home and can get it from a team closer to home you take it. We really don't know how he felt about playing in Calgary. He might have been content but didn't love it.

He was fourth liner. You don't prioritize overpaying to lock them up before they hit free agency.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Inferno

It does but if you want to play closer to home and can get it from a team closer to home you take it. We really don't know how he felt about playing in Calgary. He might have been content but didn't love it.

He was fourth liner. You don't prioritize overpaying to lock them up before they hit free agency.

and I can't imagine the team wanted to lock up a 4th liner for 4 years. that's along term.
I bet it was more the term than the money.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

and I can't imagine the team wanted to lock up a 4th liner for 4 years. that's along term.
I bet it was more the term than the money.

The Capitals have been a successful franchise for close to 15 years now and have a cup and lots of playoff round wins. Maybe they have the foresight in seeing a player play that they'll be worth it. Capitals don't have many bad contracts.

I don't know how you're making an excuse for the team not wanting to sign a 4th liner like he doesn't contribute anything. A successful franchise thought otherwise so whose model should we be a fan of?

One that decided not to sign Mangiapane last year while he was still finding his way and showing promise or a team like the Capitals who have great contracts and great players on their team?

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

The Capitals have been a successful franchise for close to 15 years now and have a cup and lots of playoff round wins. Maybe they have the foresight in seeing a player play that they'll be worth it. Capitals don't have many bad contracts.

They did sign the father of corsi as their analytics guy.

Real smart dude, and not in love with his own math like some of the other analytics guys.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

The Capitals have been a successful franchise for close to 15 years now and have a cup and lots of playoff round wins. Maybe they have the foresight in seeing a player play that they'll be worth it. Capitals don't have many bad contracts.

I don't know how you're making an excuse for the team not wanting to sign a 4th liner like he doesn't contribute anything. A successful franchise thought otherwise so whose model should we be a fan of?

One that decided not to sign Mangiapane last year while he was still finding his way and showing promise or a team like the Capitals who have great contracts and great players on their team?

You can only extend players in the last year of their contract.

As for Hathaway, it's been reported he was set on playing out east. Plsu, at the time there was also a need to sign a few guys higher on the roster and Treliving didn't have the cap space. Bennett, Rittich and especially Tkachuk were taking up all the air.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You can only extend players in the last year of their contract.

Sorry meant at the time of his current 2 year $5 million deal.

I think signing him then for 5 or 6 years would have made much more sense. But that's not really the point. They let a great 4th liner go to a team that has been successful for 15 years that obviously saw something the Flames didn't see.

Why the Flames can't see what other teams do is a problem.

[Knightslayer]

I also doubt it has been reported anywhere Hathaway wanted to play out east and not sign with the Flames.

4th liners don't usually get to pick and choose where they play especially one like Hathaway who worked his way into the NHL with the Flames and probably didn't even know where his career was headed the last year of his contract.

You don't think Flames could have offered him a contract and he wouldn't have jumped on it? Especially since he spent a lot of his career making basically no money.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Sorry meant at the time of his current 2 year $5 million deal.

I think signing him then for 5 or 6 years would have made much more sense. But that's not really the point. They let a great 4th liner go to a team that has been successful for 15 years that obviously saw something the Flames didn't see.

Why the Flames can't see what other teams do is a problem.

Again, they didn't "let him go". They can't force Hathaway to sign, and (a) they needed to sign three guys ahead of him in the lineup and (b) he wanted to play out east, meaning you'd have to overpay (which they couldn't afford to do).

And they also can't make Mangiapane sign for a longer term than he wants at a low salary. What would have been fair for a guy coming off a 32 point season? 8 years at what? Ignoring what we now know about his 2020-21 and keeping in mind cap space.

[Knightslayer]

Show one report he wanted to play out east. That sounds like something made up because I follow this team intently and never heard that until Hathaway became successful in Washington.

Never heard of a 4th liner fresh out of fighting for an NHL roster on a team deciding he'd willingly go to UFA.

[Knightslayer]

I also don't think 8 years would have worked for either the player or the Flames with Mangiapane. I think 5 years at $4 million would have got it done.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

I also doubt it has been reported anywhere Hathaway wanted to play out east and not sign with the Flames.

4th liners don't usually get to pick and choose where they play especially one like Hathaway who worked his way into the NHL with the Flames and probably didn't even know where his career was headed the last year of his contract.

You don't think Flames could have offered him a contract and he wouldn't have jumped on it? Especially since he spent a lot of his career making basically no money.

You can doubt all you want, it's been said many times. And yes, he had plenty of options. And the Flames couldn't commit 4x$1.5 to a 28 year old 4th liner when they had Rittich, Bennett and Tkachuk still to sign. And of course, Mangiapane, who you wanted to give more money too. The Flames were at the cap.

The term was the killer.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You can doubt all you want, it's been said many times. And yes, he had plenty of options. And the Flames couldn't commit 4x$1.5 to a 28 year old 4th liner when they had Rittich, Bennett and Tkachuk still to sign.

The term was the killer.

It hasn't been said many times. Not a single time by anybody reputable. Sounds like people making excuses for the Flames not realizing they had the best 4th liner Calgary has seen in 15 years and letting a team that has been very successful in finding good players steal him for nothing.

I went back and read the Hathaway signing thread out of curiosity and most were happy the Flames didn't sign him to that deal. He is on year 3 of 4 and his contract is looking great and he'd be a huge addition to this team.

Flames aren't good at pro scouting and something they need to work on as well as signing players before they get really good, not after.

We will agree to disagree as nothing will change my mind on this. At the time I hated how they handled Hathaway even when they were benching him as a healthy scratch when it was obvious he brought more to the game than the players that were in instead of him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

It hasn't been said many times. Not a single time by anybody reputable. Sounds like people making excuses for the Flames not realizing they had the best 4th liner Calgary has seen in 15 years and letting a team that has been very successful in finding good players steal him for nothing.

I went back and read the Hathaway signing thread out of curiosity and most were happy the Flames didn't sign him to that deal. He is on year 3 of 4 and his contract is looking great and he'd be a huge addition to this team.

Flames aren't good at pro scouting and something they need to work on as well as signing players before they get really good, not after.

We will agree to disagree as nothing will change my mind on this. At the time I hated how they handled Hathaway even when they were benching him as a healthy scratch when it was obvious he brought more to the game than the players that were in instead of him.

Who would you have not signed in order to make room - Bennett, Rittich, Mangiapane or Tkachuk?

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Who would you have not signed in order to make room - Bennett, Rittich, Mangiapane or Tkachuk?

Why does it have to be those players only? He played 59 games in 2017-2018 and could have been signed for longer after that season when he was looking like a really good 4th liner.

The year the Flames signed:

Buddy Robinson to a 2 year deal for some reason.

Austin Czarnik to a 2 year deal.

Jankowski to a 2 year deal.

Morgan Klimchuk to a 1 year deal.


Hathaway did get a 1 year $800,000 contract.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Why does it have to be those players only? He played 59 games in 2017-2018 and could have been signed for longer after that season when he was looking like a really good 4th liner.

The year the Flames signed:

Buddy Robinson to a 2 year deal for some reason.

Austin Czarnik to a 2 year deal.

Jankowski to a 2 year deal.

Morgan Klimchuk to a 1 year deal.


Hathaway did get a 1 year $800,000 contract.

Wait - we were talking about summer 2019 - when Hathaway left. There was no room because of Mangiapane/Rittich/Bennett/Tkachuk (and mostly the last one).

Now you want to go back to 2018. BTW, it was $850K and we all applauded it. What - he should have been signed for long term then, as a 21 year old with one decent 13 point season?

[Knightslayer]

My point all along was they should have locked him up long term on a cheap deal.

Even in 2019 they signed Tobias Reider. A player who hadn't scored a goal in one season with the Oilers.

I named u 3 players in 2018 that were signed for 2 years so if they weren't signed for 2 years they would have expired and there would have been more room for Hathaway.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

My point all along was they should have locked him up long term on a cheap deal.

Even in 2019 they signed Tobias Reider. A player who hadn't scored a goal in one season with the Oilers.

I named u 3 players in 2018 that were signed for 2 years so if they weren't signed for 2 years they would have expired and there would have been more room for Hathaway.

Good lord, you are requiring a GM to have a pretty precise crystal ball. And Reider was a good signing. Czarnik was a sought after UFA as well. Either Treliving is criticized for losing bidding wars or for signing players.