This seems insane. He's not allowed a down year? He scored 99pts last season, the Flames had their best regular season in 30 years and he was one of-if not the biggest reason for it. The entire team sucked in the playoffs, top to bottom (save Bennett and Smith)... I don't understand why his leash would be so short.
This is very off topic to this thread, apologies but I'm not sure bumping other threads is better.
When you're trying to identify who you can win with it has to be a business decision in the end.
Last years playoffs were an alarming sign as very few players showed up. That had to have people questioning the core somewhat. Gaudreau and Monahan were two of the biggest disappointments for me personally based on my expectations of them. I was very interested to see how they responded this season.
This year what we've seen is that Gaudreau has been perhaps at his least effective in his career. Monahan meanwhile is actually growing his game and working on some of his weaknesses. Monahan is looking like a player you build around. So does Tkachuk, so does Lindholm, so does our young defense (Hanifin, Valimaki, Anderson, Kylington), and even Mangiapane and Dube are looking like good complimentary pieces.
I've been worried for a while that Gaudreau was going to struggle to fight through playoff checking. Last playoffs he did nothing to quell those fears. This year is even more worrying as he's struggling to fight through regular season checking. He's showing frustration instead of determination. He's playing scared instead of brave. He's making careless plays with the puck instead of safe, smart plays.
What if his play doesn't improve? What if he walks as an UFA in a few years if we don't deal him ahead of time? You talk about an off year but what if Flames management decides this is the start of a dip in his career? I mean this will all come down to what Treliving and Maloney and Conroy and Snow and Pascall and co decide about Johnny and his career trajectory. Do they believe like you that he's just having an off year and that he can rebound? The rest of this year will still have a big role in what they think. What we think is irrelevant. But Treliving is seeing Johnny's careless play this year the same as we are. Monahan, Lindholm, Mangiapane and Dube are improving, rounding out their play. Johnny's game has gone backwards.
Treliving will have to ruthlessly decide who to build around and who not to. If Johnny's play hasn't significantly improved by the end of the season he'll have played poorly for over a calendar year. If we have another playoff disappointment or miss the playoffs a core changing move is likely. Looking further ahead the Tkachuk bridge potentially forces Treliving to decide between Tkachuk and Gaudreau long term as the LW we choose to build with. I know Treliving is thinking longer term than some of us are. Based on their play this season you'd have to be crazy to take Gaudreau over Tkachuk. I think the Flames will be more willing to pay Tkachuk's market value for Tkachuk than they will be willing to pay Gaudreau's market value for Gaudreau. All that could be pointless if they know Gaudreau won't extend here.
But that's getting a bit ahead of ourselves. We need the data from the 2nd half the season and the playoffs before we know if Treliving is likely to make a core changing trade.
For me personally Gaudreau is playing himself out of my core that I'd want to build around. I think his value in trade in the offseason may be better than his on ice value for the rest of his contract. It would be a business decision to trade him and an unpopular one amongst many fans. Treliving may trade him because they don't he'll extend. Treliving may trade him because they don't think he's committed to being the best he can be. I guess we'll see. He just stands out this year as a guy who has gone backwards when the franchise was looking to take a step forward instead. Still half a season left though, but I'm not optimistic his play is suddenly going to do a 180, he's shown a lot of really bad habits and tendencies this year.
Sorry for the long off topic perspective. It's a complicated issue given Gaudreau's contract status, his status as the star and face of the franchise, his status as a fan favourite, his abysmal play this year and his relative no show in the playoffs last year. I don't envy Flames management right now. Johnny will get more one shot this year, Treliving will add to the core at the deadline and we'll see where we get. GFG. Go Johnny Go. I'd love nothing more for him to start playing more committed and shutting me up.
Lindholm though! What a player. That guy is looking like our long term answer at #1 centre. With Monahan looking like a long term answer at #2. Ryan and Backlund both elite #3s. Centre depth is looking great with the Lindholm move to centre. But Treliving has the flexibility to add a centre or a winger through trade to supplement the core.
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So I'll admit that I haven't had a ton of time to watch games this season, I'm mostly scoreboard/stat-watching, and catching the condensed game packages on NHL.com.
Last night was the first chance I've had to really watch "Elias Lindholm: 1st Line Centre". I came away from that extremely impressed. He impacts the game from the middle of the ice in a manner that Sean Monahan simply does not. He chases guys down, breaks up clearing passes, he's all over the ice. Lindholm isn't lightning quick, but he's relentless.
The whole line of Tkachuk-Lindholm-Mangiapane works really well together. There isn't a shrinking violet among that group. They're physical, irritating, skilled, and smart.
Johnny is the most dynamic player on the roster. Monahan is clearly the best pure goal scorer. And they're the 2nd line. To me, that's what really contending depth looks like. Find a top-6 winger, get Backlund centering the 3rd line, Derek Ryan running the 4th, and let's go on a run.
Last edited by GreenLantern2814; 01-10-2020 at 04:04 PM.
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It's amazing how he has evolved into this supreme Lindholm from what we bought in the trade. Just an anchor. He is out there very single game impacting in the right way every night. Lately it's been scoring, most nights it's just checking his players properly and being great defensively.
Still can't believe we got him. Still can't believe we have both him and Monahan. Insane 1/2 punch down the middle.
And how he and Tkachuk have meshed too. Guys just plays well with everyone it seems.
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This is very off topic to this thread, apologies but I'm not sure bumping other threads is better.
When you're trying to identify who you can win with it has to be a business decision in the end.
Last years playoffs were an alarming sign as very few players showed up. That had to have people questioning the core somewhat. Gaudreau and Monahan were two of the biggest disappointments for me personally based on my expectations of them. I was very interested to see how they responded this season.
This year what we've seen is that Gaudreau has been perhaps at his least effective in his career. Monahan meanwhile is actually growing his game and working on some of his weaknesses. Monahan is looking like a player you build around. So does Tkachuk, so does Lindholm, so does our young defense (Hanifin, Valimaki, Anderson, Kylington), and even Mangiapane and Dube are looking like good complimentary pieces.
I've been worried for a while that Gaudreau was going to struggle to fight through playoff checking. Last playoffs he did nothing to quell those fears. This year is even more worrying as he's struggling to fight through regular season checking. He's showing frustration instead of determination. He's playing scared instead of brave. He's making careless plays with the puck instead of safe, smart plays.
What if his play doesn't improve? What if he walks as an UFA in a few years if we don't deal him ahead of time? You talk about an off year but what if Flames management decides this is the start of a dip in his career? I mean this will all come down to what Treliving and Maloney and Conroy and Snow and Pascall and co decide about Johnny and his career trajectory. Do they believe like you that he's just having an off year and that he can rebound? The rest of this year will still have a big role in what they think. What we think is irrelevant. But Treliving is seeing Johnny's careless play this year the same as we are. Monahan, Lindholm, Mangiapane and Dube are improving, rounding out their play. Johnny's game has gone backwards.
Treliving will have to ruthlessly decide who to build around and who not to. If Johnny's play hasn't significantly improved by the end of the season he'll have played poorly for over a calendar year. If we have another playoff disappointment or miss the playoffs a core changing move is likely. Looking further ahead the Tkachuk bridge potentially forces Treliving to decide between Tkachuk and Gaudreau long term as the LW we choose to build with. I know Treliving is thinking longer term than some of us are. Based on their play this season you'd have to be crazy to take Gaudreau over Tkachuk. I think the Flames will be more willing to pay Tkachuk's market value for Tkachuk than they will be willing to pay Gaudreau's market value for Gaudreau. All that could be pointless if they know Gaudreau won't extend here.
But that's getting a bit ahead of ourselves. We need the data from the 2nd half the season and the playoffs before we know if Treliving is likely to make a core changing trade.
For me personally Gaudreau is playing himself out of my core that I'd want to build around. I think his value in trade in the offseason may be better than his on ice value for the rest of his contract. It would be a business decision to trade him and an unpopular one amongst many fans. Treliving may trade him because they don't he'll extend. Treliving may trade him because they don't think he's committed to being the best he can be. I guess we'll see. He just stands out this year as a guy who has gone backwards when the franchise was looking to take a step forward instead. Still half a season left though, but I'm not optimistic his play is suddenly going to do a 180, he's shown a lot of really bad habits and tendencies this year.
Sorry for the long off topic perspective. It's a complicated issue given Gaudreau's contract status, his status as the star and face of the franchise, his status as a fan favourite, his abysmal play this year and his relative no show in the playoffs last year. I don't envy Flames management right now. Johnny will get more one shot this year, Treliving will add to the core at the deadline and we'll see where we get. GFG. Go Johnny Go. I'd love nothing more for him to start playing more committed and shutting me up.
Lindholm though! What a player. That guy is looking like our long term answer at #1 centre. With Monahan looking like a long term answer at #2. Ryan and Backlund both elite #3s. Centre depth is looking great with the Lindholm move to centre. But Treliving has the flexibility to add a centre or a winger through trade to supplement the core.
With Gaudreau, overall this season yes. He's been below his mean as a player, and there even looked to be at times signs of defeat in his demeanor which was extremely out of character, but the last 7 games or so he's quietly been a notch better and inching towards the player we could rely on over the past few years. Monahan has clearly tackled his defensive game and looks committed to going by the book to improve it and evolve. As a pair they're getting closer. They're pulling their weight offensively the last while and contributing. And to be honest last night I was the most impressed I've been with them since early last year.
So maybe we shouldn't speak too soon. It feels like they're gearing up to save their "beast mode" for when it matters most.
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“He beat the defenseman up the ice, he sent the defenseman back to the gym, brought it to the net, undressed the goalie, and went bar down, so it’s hard not to remember a goal like that. It was a pretty nice goal”
Elias Lindholm with Carolina: 188 points (in 374 games)
Elias Lindholm with Calgary: 188 points (in 215 games)
So in Carolina he was a 41pts per 82 games guy and in Calgary he is 72pts per 82 games. Such a great trade for the organization and still 3 years left on those deals.
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Is Lindholm injured or something? Not getting anything accomplished out there. It’s the Flames MO to keep injured guys playing when they’re not contributing so it wouldn’t be surprising.
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Oliver Kylington is the greatest and best player in the world
Just like Tkachuk and Gaudreau have rounded out into better overall players under Sutter, Lindholm is doing the same thing. Scoring very good high skilled goals.
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