Blackhawks beat writer rips fanbase

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Then maybe those crappy negative posters should take the hint, no? Perhaps as forum members we should all be able to guide how we want this forum to look. I see countless posts from those who have been here a while discussing how the quality of discussion has dropped and we see nothing but really bad posts and those who traditionally post something worthwhile starting to stay away. I guess it depends on whether or not you think this forum should be held to a certain standard or not, a standard that is above and beyond what the mods have control over. Those who wish to be part of this forum must elevate their contributions or be prepared to defend the low-level vitriolic and petty posts they normally provide. What was once a handful of people that you could ignore in the past has now become the norm around here, making it difficult to combat the lowered quality of posts. Perhaps if those regulars adopted a little more of that internet policeman mentality and told some of those others that they're being stupid, we wouldn't still be having these discussions because the low quality posters would have found their way to the exit.

I really have no problem with someone calling out the stupid posts of others. Call a spade a spade. If someone's acting like and idiot, let them know it. Perhaps they'll think twice before posting in the same manner in the future.

Perhaps one way to maintain the quality of the site is to focus on making high quality posts vs. trying to figure out who the "idiots" are.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

That's a common complaint about players, but I think most guys just aren't genetically blessed enough to play hockey at NHL star level well into their 30's.

Yeah this is the inherent issue with the long term deals that carry into the mid, late 30's. It's a given the player is going to hit a point where he's grossly overpaid for what he can accomplish on the ice at his age and declining skills. Those guys go from one the most revered franchise players to most loathed because of the contract. It's why I've always been against these kinds of contracts as it just gets bad for everyone in the end. A lot of teams are mindful of these kinds of deals but you also have teams like the Kings and Hawks that are just going to hand out contracts to ensure they can win now and that's fine but I have an issue in that after their window starts closing and the contracts are now hurting the team that they try to get out of them using questionable methods that IMO lack ethics.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Perhaps one way to maintain the quality of the site is to focus on making high quality posts vs. trying to figure out who the "idiots" are.

Sure, but if the high quality posters are driven away because of an overwhelming tsunami of crappy posts (which is definitely happening), don't we need to address the crappy posts and posters?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

That's a common complaint about players, but I think most guys just aren't genetically blessed enough to play hockey at NHL star level well into their 30's.

I agree, even though top-tier defencemen are the more typical exception to the rule.

The fact of the matter remains that these are the same people who saw Seabrook at his absolute all-time best and are upset that he is no longer up to those standards.

It takes some cognitive admission that you watched this guy at his best for a decade. Um...its been a decade. That was then, this is now. Yes, I know how much hes getting paid.

Its kind of a fault in the system of pro-sports, players tend to get paid for what they've done as opposed to what they're going to do. Its a flaw, but it is what it is.

The guy put 3 Cups at your feet. Show a little goddamned respect.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

The irony of the fact that's exactly what you're doing now seems lost on you.

No it's not lost on me. I am expressing my opinion on the types of posts that I feel add little value and what I believe would be the best way to deal with the number of overly negative and irrational posts that seem to occur regularly. Not one person in this thread has resorted to anything close to personal attacks or criticisms, just differences of opinion.

You have a different approach to posts that you don't agree with. If it brings you happiness, that's fantastic for you. Personally I'd be happier if you never responded to a post of mine again.

[stemit14]

I totally agree with this writer’s response. I felt some flames fans did the same thing with iginla I his last few years with the team... seemingly despising him because he was not as good as he used to be despite all that he had done for the team and the city.

Feels even worse with Chicago’s fans since they have 3 Stanley cups from this core! If the flames got to win 3 Stanley cups in the next 9 years because of Johnny, Monahan, Gio, and Hamilton... I would give them more than just a little slack if they all tailed off in performance towards the end. In fact, I would be demanding monuments and statues be built to thank them!


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[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah this is the inherent issue with the long term deals that carry into the mid, late 30's. It's a given the player is going to hit a point where he's grossly overpaid for what he can accomplish on the ice at his age and declining skills. Those guys go from one the most revered franchise players to most loathed because of the contract. It's why I've always been against these kinds of contracts as it just gets bad for everyone in the end. A lot of teams are mindful of these kinds of deals but you also have teams like the Kings and Hawks that are just going to hand out contracts to ensure they can win now and that's fine but I have an issue in that after their window starts closing and the contracts are now hurting the team that they try to get out of them using questionable methods that IMO lack ethics.

I also find it annoying that teams always seem to escape any repercussions of their contract signings. Hossa for instance. Datsyuk's contract being traded.

Both brutal cap circumvention and the league didn't bat an eye.

I think there will certainly be some sort of work stoppage in 2020 and teams will get another 2-3 compliance buyouts so it will be business as usual then too.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Sure, but if the high quality posters are driven away because of an overwhelming tsunami of crappy posts (which is definitely happening), don't we need to address the crappy posts and posters?

Agreed. Just suggesting that maybe arguing with, or name calling said posters may not really work. And it is equally unpleasant to read, at least for some.

Then there's also the point that quality is a little subjective.

For all practical purposes, Bingo's game takes are a better thread to rationally discuss the game and stay away from emotional, irrational stuff.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You have a different approach to posts that you don't agree with. If it brings you happiness, that's fantastic for you. Personally I'd be happier if you never responded to a post of mine again.

You're free to use the ignore feature, but that would prevent you from the nit-picking you seem to get off on. Like the way you seem to constantly argue with just about everything Bingo and Textcritic say whether you actually have issue with what they're saying or not. A lot of people seem to have strange quirks with regard to what they enjoy posting about. Just found it ironic you were complaining about complaining. But not really surprising I guess. There are a few people who enjoy being a contrarian just for the sake of it.

[Jbo]

I think there is an obvious difference between having a contraion point, and posting insults at players or banging the same negative drum 10 posts in a row. See Hes’s examples above.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Salt Water Cowboy #10

Agreed, 90% of Chicago’s problems are the result of management signing these contracts. They painted themselves into a corner. The fans can say what they want about the players. They aren’t living up to the contracts. Players should’ve been dealt or signed to different deals. I think Teows is just having an off year though. But it’s on management for the most part

When you wing three Stanley Cups in six years, you have to pay your captain, your best player, and your top 2 D whatever they want. It's the cost of doing business.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Both brutal cap circumvention and the league didn't bat an eye.

I think there will certainly be some sort of work stoppage in 2020 and teams will get another 2-3 compliance buyouts so it will be business as usual then too.

I think the league really bends over backwards for their original six franchises as well as ones in important (to them) markets like LA. Those are the teams that seem to have the most power when it comes to decision making and there's no doubt in my mind teams like the Hawks, Kings, Wild, etc will be desperately trying to get more compliance buyouts out of the next CBA. I would like to see other teams oppose this because the issue will just keep going un until the league enforces the repercussions for these contracts.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

When you wing three Stanley Cups in six years, you have to pay your captain, your best player, and your top 2 D whatever they want. It's the cost of doing business.

No disrespect to the player because I think he's a warrior, but that Seabrook contract was a dagger from day one.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jbo

I think there is an obvious difference between having a contraion point, and posting insults at players. See Hes’s example above

I think its more than fair to be disappointed in, and angry at, players. We're fans, thats just going to happen.

And after games emotions can swing wildly. Let people vent. It isnt hurting anyone. I wonder about whether Brouwer makes a mistake on the ice and thinks "Oh hell, CP is going to slaughter me for this!!"

Somehow I doubt it and I sincerely hope not.

But its in regards to their play. Their profession. Thats fair game.

Wanting them dead or injured is ridiculous and extreme and over the line.

But those examples that Hes showed? Wanting Bennett off the team or in the AHL? That doesnt seem over the line. The one where hes in Musk's car being sent to Mars was hilarious! I mean, in my personal opinion its not correct, but its not insane either.

No one wished him ill or any harm, just away from the team.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

No disrespect to the player because I think he's a warrior, but that Seabrook contract was a dagger from day one.

I don't disagree with that. Seabrook is probably the one guy they should've walked away from.

Toews is a different story. I don't watch a ton of Blackhawks games, I just read their fans bitch on the internet, but I'm surprised to see how consistent Toews' production has actually been over his career.

The only season under 50 points in his career is the lockout-shortened one, and he's got 48 in 47 there. Otherwise, he's a 55-65 point 200 ft centre who plays in all situations, and captained the team to three cups.

I don't see the 'decline' or a reason to really bash the guy. Did people really think he was going to sign for $10.5M and then improve upon his career best offensive numbers? The Hawks may have trouble winning with those two players making $21M, but Chicago wouldn't have a chance of winning anything with Kane alone.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

You're free to use the ignore feature, but that would prevent you from the nit-picking you seem to get off on. Like the way you seem to constantly argue with just about everything Bingo and Textcritic say whether you actually have issue with what they're saying or not. A lot of people seem to have strange quirks with regard to what they enjoy posting about. Just found it ironic you were complaining about complaining. But not really surprising I guess. There are a few people who enjoy being a contrarian just for the sake of it.

Bingo and Textcritic are two of the strongest posters on the site. If in fact I am nitpicking some of their posts, I don’t suspect they are losing any sleep and often will respond as to why I’m wrong. Do you really believe that has something to do with the topic at hand?

I have hopelessly veered off topic and will stop. My apologies. I will follow your advice on the ignore feature.

[thefoss1957]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Nothing in the cap recapture penalty affects the actual contract between the Blackhawks and Hossa. It only affects their capacity to spend money on other contracts, and they agreed to be bound by that rule when the current CBA was negotiated. The whole issue is a red herring.

No, because the Blackhawks are being penalized for a contract that was compliant to the CBA at the time of its execution....I still think that it would be worth a court challenge.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Locke

I think its more than fair to be disappointed in, and angry at, players. We're fans, thats just going to happen.

And after games emotions can swing wildly. Let people vent. It isnt hurting anyone. I wonder about whether Brouwer makes a mistake on the ice and thinks "Oh hell, CP is going to slaughter me for this!!"

Somehow I doubt it and I sincerely hope not.

But its in regards to their play. Their profession. Thats fair game.

Wanting them dead or injured is ridiculous and extreme and over the line.

But those examples that Hes showed? Wanting Bennett off the team or in the AHL? That doesnt seem over the line. The one where hes in Musk's car being sent to Mars was hilarious! I mean, in my personal opinion its not correct, but its not insane either.

No one wished him ill or any harm, just away from the team.

Agreed. Posters are getting a little sensitive these days. You don't think guys hear worse on the ice? There's a line to be drawn, but when you sign a huge contract or play for millions, you have to have a thicker skin. Besides, you have millions in the bank, so us posters who critique and make jokes when all is said and done are nobody to you. As a player laughing at retirement at 40, with millions in the bank, I'm sure they can take an insult or two (which isn't ill-willed). Guys like Seabrook don't just get handed money. Their agents lobby for what they think he's worth and management decides to pay up. Who cares if he won them three cups? If he's still earning that coin and not playing up to par, he should be critiqued.

[sempuki]

Originally Posted by Locke

And after games emotions can swing wildly. Let people vent. It isnt hurting anyone. I wonder about whether Brouwer makes a mistake on the ice and thinks "Oh hell, CP is going to slaughter me for this!!"

It's not going to hurt Brouwer (at least directly, players eventually figure out what the fans think of them), but it is going to hurt the people who come here to read quality -- not be the emotional support group of unstable fans with an unfounded sense of entitlement and severe boundary issues.

Would you run into the street and shout the same things at strangers? You may know some posters by actual person, and a number by internet identity, but this is very much a public place,c and some people's reactions on this forum are simply not appropriate for an adult public discourse. Get a grip!

Of course this isn't really a CP issue per se, but an issue with the semi-anonymous textual nature of the internet in general. But grown ups with a rational understanding of the kinds of spaces they're building, in public and in our minds, would be wise to resist that nature of the medium and make a nominal effort to reasonable and matured human beings wherever they can.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by sempuki

It's not going to hurt Brouwer (at least directly, players eventually figure out what the fans think of them), but it is going to hurt the people who come here to read quality -- not be the emotional support group of unstable fans with an unfounded sense of entitlement and severe boundary issues.

Would you run into the street and shout the same things at strangers? You may know some posters by actual person, and a number by internet identity, but this is very much a public place,c and some people's reactions on this forum are simply not appropriate for an adult public discourse. Get a grip!

Of course this isn't really a CP issue per se, but an issue with the semi-anonymous textual nature of the internet in general. But grown ups with a rational understanding of the kinds of spaces they're building, in public and in our minds, would be wise to resist that nature of the medium and make a nominal effort to reasonable and matured human beings wherever they can.

The problem is that you're lumping the whole place together.

The Post-Game Thread in Fire on Ice right after a game, win or lose, is not representative of the community in any capacity.

Thats like saying that people who were ecstatic about the Obama election at the Campaign Headquarters were like that from day 1 until his last day in Office.

Its simply false.

People are complaining about the knee-jerk, insane reactions in the most emotionally charged thread on any given game-night.

Thats like going to an MMA match and being bewildered at the guys beating the hell out of each other. It evidences a definitive lack of expectations.

Rarely is the initial, gut reaction a well thought-out and rational one, and the expectation thereof is equally irrational.