Really has any long and successful show ended on a high? Certainly Breaking Bad didn't.
Halt and Catch Fire did an excellent job with the final season. The problem is that it wasn't a ratings success so it doesn't really fit the "successful show" caveat. It was 4 seasons and got progressively better each season.
Success is the problem. More people meddle in the production and more money is on the line.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to KTrain For This Useful Post:
I wish when people criticize the show they would take the time to get it right. They state in there that the army magically travels south when it’s clear that time has passed. The Dragons wing has healed and everyone’s faces have healed. This wasn’t the episode to have a time warp complaint.
The complaints about both the Drinking party being bad yet Dany naming Gendry head of Stormsend don’t fit. Either you didn’t want the #### party and wanted strategy or you did. You don’t get to complain about both.
People are so desperate to complain they don’t ever consider that maybe the writers got the motivations right. The longer the army of the North stays North the more likely the Lords tell Dany the south is their problem and the more Loyal to Sansa they become. The strategy clearly followed Danys motivations.
I get complaints but put some time into them to actually consider the various options the writers had and what the motivations of the characters are and if it makes sense as opposed to just slapping a bunch of click bate together.
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to GGG For This Useful Post:
People aren't desperate to complain. The writing the past two seasons has made it easy to complain. Show is still entertaining, don't get me wrong, but suggesting there hasn't been a noticeable decline in the quality of writing is just ridiculous.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Senator Clay Davis For This Useful Post:
People aren't desperate to complain. The writing the past two seasons has made it easy to complain. Show is still entertaining, don't get me wrong, but suggesting there hasn't been a noticeable decline in the quality of writing is just ridiculous.
I agree. It used to be, after an episode, I would talk to my friends about all the cool/funny/crazy stuff we liked. Now, we just point out how stupid/lazy/illogical each episode is. GoT turned into a straight up action series without logic. I'll still watch it because I've devoted tons of time to it and want to see how it ends, but if this was Season 1, it's not a show I would ever continue watching.
__________________
...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs;
it's Don't Tread On Me.
I wish when people criticize the show they would take the time to get it right. They state in there that the army magically travels south when it’s clear that time has passed. The Dragons wing has healed and everyone’s faces have healed. This wasn’t the episode to have a time warp complaint.
The complaints about both the Drinking party being bad yet Dany naming Gendry head of Stormsend don’t fit. Either you didn’t want the #### party and wanted strategy or you did. You don’t get to complain about both.
People are so desperate to complain they don’t ever consider that maybe the writers got the motivations right. The longer the army of the North stays North the more likely the Lords tell Dany the south is their problem and the more Loyal to Sansa they become. The strategy clearly followed Danys motivations.
I get complaints but put some time into them to actually consider the various options the writers had and what the motivations of the characters are and if it makes sense as opposed to just slapping a bunch of click bate together.
Cersei not showing any signs of pregnancy, unless it's a ruse, is a massive hole.
The Following User Says Thank You to rubecube For This Useful Post:
This place is getting depressing.
Do we need a separate thread for people who still like GOT vs one for people who just want to winge?
I've loved every episode of this season and last. And the 6 before. I've watched every episode multiple times and you can pick out something you missed each time.
I get there are plot holes and characters making stupid decisions but it's still enjoyable as hell and the best show on TV right now. We're rushed because actors don't want to do it anymore. It's 10 years of their lives. We just get to sit back and wait for more episodes.
People act like books 4 and 5 were not a boring, mess. The show took two books and slimmed it to most of season 4 and a bit of 5.
Yes, we could have had a couple extra seasons, but it would have been a slog.
The writers have done a good job. May feel a bit rushed for sure, but at least they will get to an ending. There is 0 faith that GRRM gets to the same place in two books.
Long story short, D&D have done a decent job with what they were given.
The Following User Says Thank You to Jbo For This Useful Post:
I thought last year was a bit of a mess, but I've mostly enjoyed this season. That said, I can't say the criticism of this season has been unwarranted.
The Following User Says Thank You to rubecube For This Useful Post:
I always come back to this when making this point, but think of the movie Independence Day. I enjoy that movie, it's fun and stupid and nonsensical and bizarrely patriotic since a German director did it, but I like it. But on merit it's a pretty ####ty movie, the acting isn't great, the story preposterous and the dialogue laughable. But it's still fun. Season 8 is like Independence Day. It's fun and it's entertaining, but if you actually sit down and break it all down, you'll come to the conclusion it's not very good. I think especially when this gets rewatched will the flaws become even more apparent. I just hope the last two episodes don't go totally off the rails, a terrible ending could definitely leave a really bad stench on the show's legacy.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
The Following User Says Thank You to Senator Clay Davis For This Useful Post:
I thought last year was a bit of a mess, but I've mostly enjoyed this season. That said, I can't say the criticism of this season has been unwarranted.
Agreed.
I’ll admit I’m surprised though. After the first few episodes I thought we’d see way, way more criticism and most reactions were quite positive. It’s only been the last couple days I’ve noticed a lot people are really starting to express concerns.
For me I’ve enjoyed my first watch of every episode, this season and last. It’s only once I rewatch, read online criticism or really start to deconstruct the story (which I’ve tried to avoid doing) that the holes start to jump out at me. I’ve always struggled with the “turn you brain off and just enjoy the show” mentality but it does seem to work for his show.
One thing that’s helped a lot is that I try and avoid looking at it from the outside. That is to say I’d much rather discuss “why did Sansa make that stupid decision?” Than I would “why did the writers make Sansa so stupid?”
When I stick to in world discussions it feels more immersive. When I discuss the show from the outside I find I enjoy the discussion and the show much less. I agreed with most of that Esquire article but I’ve been trying to avoid that kind of stuff.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cecil Terwilliger For This Useful Post:
People act like books 4 and 5 were not a boring, mess. The show took two books and slimmed it to most of season 4 and a bit of 5.
Yes, we could have had a couple extra seasons, but it would have been a slog.
The writers have done a good job. May feel a bit rushed for sure, but at least they will get to an ending. There is 0 faith that GRRM gets to the same place in two books.
Long story short, D&D have done a decent job with what they were given.
Books 4 and 5 were garbage. GRRM has added almost nothing valuable to the overall in close to 20 years, and we still have to read utter nonesense like this, from the article above
Quote:
Fans have spent decades with these characters. George R.R. Martin has spent decades creating them, writing thousands of words to create complex humans, and in an hour and a half, the Game of Thrones writers turn them into embarrassing caricatures like this is an episode of Big Bang Theory (no offense to Big Bang Theory).
Fans have waited decades for Martin write something, if you want to point fingers, point there.
I've really enjoyed this season. Luckily for me I'm not smart enough to know better.
The Following User Says Thank You to EldrickOnIce For This Useful Post:
I’ll admit I’m surprised though. After the first few episodes I thought we’d see way, way more criticism and most reactions were quite positive. It’s only been the last couple days I’ve noticed a lot people are really starting to express concerns.
For me I’ve enjoyed my first watch of every episode, this season and last. It’s only once I rewatch, read online criticism or really start to deconstruct the story (which I’ve tried to avoid doing) that the holes start to jump out at me. I’ve always struggled with the “turn you brain off and just enjoy the show” mentality but it does seem to work for his show.
One thing that’s helped a lot is that I try and avoid looking at it from the outside. That is to say I’d much rather discuss “why did Sansa make that stupid decision?” Than I would “why did the writers make Sansa so stupid?”
When I stick to in world discussions it feels more immersive. When I discuss the show from the outside I find I enjoy the discussion and the show much less. I agreed with most of that Esquire article but I’ve been trying to avoid that kind of stuff.
You're right. The show isn't ruining the show. The deconstruction of it is.
Rather than playing the part of the immersed audience in the observing role which is typically most enjoyable, people are moseying around backstage and sticking their noses in things, defeating the entire purpose of watching a story unfold.
The Following User Says Thank You to djsFlames For This Useful Post:
Fact is, they had to wrap up a lot of #### in a mere 6 episodes with a limited budget for a show that really took it's time to be thorough in its first 6 seasons. Of course there's going to be inconsistencies and holes because of that huge shift in pace, simply cause there isn't enough screen time to convey how and why everything unfolded for every character every step of the way, which they were practically doing earlier on with the 10 episode seasons.
Maybe the best course is to accept this reality already and sit back and enjoy the remainder of the ride. *areyounotentertained.jpg*
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to djsFlames For This Useful Post:
simply cause there isn't enough screen time to convey how and why everything unfolded for every character every step of the way, which they were practically doing earlier on with the 10 episode seasons.
I think that could explain the quick Night King death and stuff, certainly time constraints are an issue now. But that doesn't really excuse the Bronn stuff.
He just casually travels 3000 miles to Winterfell, in enemy territory during winter, and conveniently finds the two people he needs to kill alone. This is a day or so after a world-defining war, and right before they leave to Cersei themselves. And then he just sort of makes a threat until he is offered Highgarden, which of course Tyrion has no say of. And then he casually strolls back, I guess? Where there will be major questions as to why Tyrion and Jaime are alive?
At least Cersei's offer made some sense, she had the ability to make the offer and the reasons to do so based on her character. Now Daenerys is just going to give him like the second most important castle because he threatened her hand? None of that makes sense and was on par with the "bad #####" dialogue a couple seasons ago.
It didn't advance the plot, it didn't show any type of growth and I think it even went against character traits. All for some faux-suspense and weird reunion. Honestly feels like they are reading memes of what fans want, in this case Bronn getting a kickass castle, and trying to appease fans that way (same with Arya being bad ass world-saving hero). It's no longer subverting expectations, but leaning into them comically in my opinion.
Still a lot of time, maybe they are just building us up for some unexpected twist in the next episodes, but the Bronn stuff fell flat like much of this season has for me.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Oling_Roachinen For This Useful Post:
You're right. The show isn't ruining the show. The deconstruction of it is.
Rather than playing the part of the immersed audience in the observing role which is typically most enjoyable, people are moseying around backstage and sticking their noses in things, defeating the entire purpose of watching a story unfold.
But you're choosing to blame the effect rather than the cause. As I said earlier there would be no complaints right now if the writing quality was of the standard of earlier seasons. Forgiving the decline because of other factors like lack of time pr budget is a cop out. They truly appear to have run out of ideas or a plan once the source material ended.
And as I keep saying, the show becoming stupider hasn't made it less entertaining, though I suspect that's because we know it's the end. If things were open ended right now I suspect the criticism would be far greater.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Senator Clay Davis For This Useful Post:
This season and last season have had lots of problems, but at least they aren't the Ramsay Bolton torture porn season. That was easily the worst season.
lmao Never said I was.
