The Home Improvement Thread

[photon]

Originally Posted by Wormius

But why does the wax ring have to resemble the same colour as poo?

That's not the colour it starts out as....

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Not yet, tip away! I will do some conduit.

2 things, run 2x 1" conduit. One for regular power and one for low voltage/speakers/tv. Even if you don't use the second conduit, it's super cheap and easy to put in when you're doing the first one.

Second thing is if you know where your panel is going, you can actually run PVC conduit in the slab and avoid installing the elbow boxes outside of your garage. Simply, you'll put a 90 degree bend sending the pipe upwards to the location of the panel.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

One consideration is that a deck requires a permit and a change to your rpr. That's a lot of hassle for a do it yourselfer. A patio (less tha 24 inches off the ground) doesn't require that.

A deck would also require concrete filled holes four feet deep for the posts...not a small job.

I'd rather build a deck but I think a patio would be much cheaper and easier.

Not completely true. A deck less than 24" off the ground requires no permits. An at grade deck could sit on concrete support post holders.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

It is a lot of work, and good and expensive. Having done 2 about that size in the last few years, the biggest hassle is...everything. Excavating, getting gravel (road crush), hauling gravel, leveling, compacting with a rented machine, leveling sand, setting and resetting stones, vibing the sand into the gaps, and getting rid of excavated dirt.

Also, my latest 9x13' cost somewhere from $1200-1600 in materials and deliveries...I kind of stopped counting. YMMV, but when pricing it out don't forget delivery charges, if applicable.

But if you're into that sort of thing...

I second the lot of work. I'm at the leveling stage right now for a 20x8 patio but so is restaining a deck regularly. I also prefer an area flush with grade.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Not completely true. A deck less than 24" off the ground requires no permits. An at grade deck could sit on concrete support post holders.

That's what I said. Like exactly. Maybe you're confusing deck and patio? Or maybe I'm confusing them. Anyway, we're on the same page.

I'd just build a wood patio with those concrete anchors. Bury them in the ground and you're away to the races.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

That's what I said. Like exactly. Maybe you're confusing deck and patio? Or maybe I'm confusing them. Anyway, we're on the same page.

I'd just build a wood patio with those concrete anchors. Bury them in the ground and you're away to the races.

I guess I just misunderstood what you meant. But I wouldn't call anything raised above grade any amount (especially up to the 24") a patio. I know lots of people call an at grade deck a patio as well, but in my terminology a deck is a deck, and a patio is an at grade solid surface such as pavers or concrete.

[Wormius]

Ugh. The water from the p-trap under the sink smells worse than poo

[wooohooo]

Thanks for the reply guys.

After extensive youtube watching the patio stones look like way too much work. It seems the cost is also much more expensive as well and if you don't do a good job it'll be another pain in a few years.

It seems a deck is more along my skill set. The only problem is I'm seeing multiple sources tell me different things in terms of setting a post. Are those foundation screws

https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.a...000746285.html

allowed for deck construction? Some people say they are allowed, some aren't. This seems a lot easier than digging out post holes?

If I do go the post hole route, is it necessary to dig the entire 4' and fill a few inches with gravel then create a concrete pier above grade to attach the 4x4 or 6x6 to?

Or I've also heard to just put 40 lbs of concrete in the hole, let it set then tamp the rest down with dirt.

Or could I go the dek-block route and just sit it on a couple inches of crushed gravel?

The deck is only about 2-3' high with the ledger sitting just under 2' from the ground. I'm thinking of going 12' wide and 10' long if that makes any difference.

Also, is this worth getting a permit for? Calculating materials I'm looking at spending ~$400-600 where a permit here (Edmonton) is $222.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by wooohooo

Are those foundation screws

https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.a...000746285.html

allowed for deck construction? Some people say they are allowed, some aren't. This seems a lot easier than digging out post holes?

It may seem a lot easier, but if you hit a big rock when you're 2' down, you're going to be very unhappy. You can't see what's stopping you, you can't get it deeper, and you've Disturbed all the soil above so it's hard to just move over a few inches and try again.

If you're sure you have good soil without any big rocks, it might work (no comment on legality or whether it's a good idea). But if you have miserable rock-filled clay, those things don't respond very well. When digging a post hole, at least you can see the SOB rocks and try to pry them out with a digger bar.

[V]

I do think they're legal as long as you aren't putting a structure on the deck. One way to see if the screw piles will work is to pound a 4' piece of rebar first. If you hit anything you're in trouble.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by wooohooo

Also, is this worth getting a permit for? Calculating materials I'm looking at spending ~$400-600 where a permit here (Edmonton) is $222.

Get the permit now, much easier than asking the city for approval on an already built deck when you go to sell the home. The city has a complete guide on decks and what is required, in my mind it wouldn't be worth the hassle of building a non-compliant deck and trying to have it approved during sale negotiations.

Curious as to how you're planning to keep your costs under $5 per square foot as well.

[Bankai]

Originally Posted by wooohooo

Thanks for the reply guys.

After extensive youtube watching the patio stones look like way too much work. It seems the cost is also much more expensive as well and if you don't do a good job it'll be another pain in a few years.

It seems a deck is more along my skill set. The only problem is I'm seeing multiple sources tell me different things in terms of setting a post. Are those foundation screws

https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.a...000746285.html

allowed for deck construction? Some people say they are allowed, some aren't. This seems a lot easier than digging out post holes?

If I do go the post hole route, is it necessary to dig the entire 4' and fill a few inches with gravel then create a concrete pier above grade to attach the 4x4 or 6x6 to?

Or I've also heard to just put 40 lbs of concrete in the hole, let it set then tamp the rest down with dirt.

Or could I go the dek-block route and just sit it on a couple inches of crushed gravel?

The deck is only about 2-3' high with the ledger sitting just under 2' from the ground. I'm thinking of going 12' wide and 10' long if that makes any difference.

Also, is this worth getting a permit for? Calculating materials I'm looking at spending ~$400-600 where a permit here (Edmonton) is $222.

I'm going through the exact same thing you are, however mine is going to be 12' x 16' and located in the back corner of my yard.

I am doing a paver patio in addition to the deck my builder finished, as well as the wooden deck mentioned. Pavers are a lot of work. Currently completing that right now and even the prep is staggering.

My wooden deck is going to be done with concrete sonotubes as recommended by a friend. I am gong 4' deep with 6"x6" posts. When completed it will sit less than 2' off the ground. I checked with the city and they told me that a permit is NOT required for my deck (12' x 16' less than 2' off the ground).

I looked at Dek blocks but for me this is a new build with the ground not having properly settled for a couple years I decided against it...

I will be starting to build this in about 10 days. Let me know if you have any question I may be able to help.

FYI I am also in Edmonton.

[wooohooo]

Originally Posted by Bankai

I'm going through the exact same thing you are, however mine is going to be 12' x 16' and located in the back corner of my yard.

I am doing a paver patio in addition to the deck my builder finished, as well as the wooden deck mentioned. Pavers are a lot of work. Currently completing that right now and even the prep is staggering.

My wooden deck is going to be done with concrete sonotubes as recommended by a friend. I am gong 4' deep with 6"x6" posts. When completed it will sit less than 2' off the ground. I checked with the city and they told me that a permit is NOT required for my deck (12' x 16' less than 2' off the ground).

I looked at Dek blocks but for me this is a new build with the ground not having properly settled for a couple years I decided against it...

I will be starting to build this in about 10 days. Let me know if you have any question I may be able to help.

FYI I am also in Edmonton.

That's right about my time frame as well. How are you digging your post holes? I hear that is by far the worst part. There's a guy on kijiji that will do it for $10 a post hole + a $25 dollar site fee. Seems cheap compared to spending a couple hours digging.

I looked at how much concrete it would fill for the sonotubes and it's roughly 5-7 bags of concrete per hole?

[Bankai]

Originally Posted by wooohooo

That's right about my time frame as well. How are you digging your post holes? I hear that is by far the worst part. There's a guy on kijiji that will do it for $10 a post hole + a $25 dollar site fee. Seems cheap compared to spending a couple hours digging.

I looked at how much concrete it would fill for the sonotubes and it's roughly 5-7 bags of concrete per hole?

I've got a lot of time off coming up soon so I will be digging them myself manually (otherwise I would just hire someone).

$10 per post and a $25 site fee is reasonable. I think I've seen the exact ad on KIJIJI that you are talking about. If I didn't have the time off (or an excuse to have lots of beers while doing it) I would definitely go the hiring route.

5-7 bags is a good approximation. I've calculated about 6-7 30kg bags per hole.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

2 things, run 2x 1" conduit. One for regular power and one for low voltage/speakers/tv. Even if you don't use the second conduit, it's super cheap and easy to put in when you're doing the first one.

Second thing is if you know where your panel is going, you can actually run PVC conduit in the slab and avoid installing the elbow boxes outside of your garage. Simply, you'll put a 90 degree bend sending the pipe upwards to the location of the panel.

Do you know what gauge wire I need for 100A, about 60 feet? You say 1" conduit, but I thought I'd need at least 1.5" for code?

Page 10 here:
http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Documen...ring-guide.pdf

shows 1.5" for 60A, with 6/3, but doesn't mention 100A

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Do you know what gauge wire I need for 100A, about 60 feet? You say 1" conduit, but I thought I'd need at least 1.5" for code?

Page 10 here:
http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Documen...ring-guide.pdf

shows 1.5" for 60A, with 6/3, but doesn't mention 100A

I can take a look later today but I believe for 100A it's a #2 awg 3 conductor. Why are you running a 100A service to the garage? Are you making that your service entrance from enmax for the whole property? If it's not you probably don't need that much power available there and a 60A should be fine. I can double check the code later on pipe sizing later, however the pdf you linked me doesn't want to work right now but I'm guessing that it says service entrance conduit or raceway. You only have 1 service entrance raceway in your home and that's where your panel ties into the utility, not for sub panels.

Edit: I got the pdf working and it's correct if you use NMWU #6/3, however you don't need to use that cable. You can use individual conductors inside the conduit which are rated for wet and underground use and reduce the size of the pipe required. The reason being is the NMWU cable has an outer sheath that increases the overall diameter of the conductors you're pulling through, requiring a larger pipe to pull them into. That's your call but when I did my garage, I used individual conductors in the pipe (proper ratings of course) and a 1" rigid PVC pipe. Inspector gave it a pass too.

[Fuzz]

I managed to get someone at the city to email back pretty quickly. They said 1 1/4" conduit and #3 copper.

The situation is, currently power runs to the house, attached to the side, not on a mast so it is pretty low. But the garage is going to be where the power line is, so it's gotta move. So the plan is to have the new service from the pole to the garage(which is about 2m, away). I figured that may as well be 200A. Then run a breaker for 100A and the wire to the house through conduit. Current house panel is 100A.

Not sure if I need a sub panel to split the 200A, or if I just get a garage panel for 200A and have a 100A breaker in that for the house?

Am I doing this right?

[llwhiteoutll]

I believe that #3 awg 3 conductor is acceptable for 100A service.

Edit: Didn't see the last post. I'm surprised they said 1.25" conduit though, not even considering how much of a PITA it would be to work with, their own wiring guide calls for larger diameter conduit for smaller cable.

I'd also hope that your electrician that is pulling the permit for this work doesn't need you to be Googling and calling the city, they should know how to do this to code.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I managed to get someone at the city to email back pretty quickly. They said 1 1/4" conduit and #3 copper.

The situation is, currently power runs to the house, attached to the side, not on a mast so it is pretty low. But the garage is going to be where the power line is, so it's gotta move. So the plan is to have the new service from the pole to the garage(which is about 2m, away). I figured that may as well be 200A. Then run a breaker for 100A and the wire to the house through conduit. Current house panel is 100A.

Not sure if I need a sub panel to split the 200A, or if I just get a garage panel for 200A and have a 100A breaker in that for the house?

Am I doing this right?

You'll need a 200A panel rated for service entrance in the garage for sure.

You can then use a 100A breaker in the 200A garage panel to feed your house with no other sub panels.

Keep the existing panel in your house with the existing 100A main breaker inside of it. This way if you need to turn off power to the entire house panel you can, without running to the garage every time.

One important thing to remember too when moving the service is that you must now move your ground point to the garage. The ground wire that goes to your ground electrode from the house must be removed as well as the brass screw. This MUST only be done after putting in a new ground electrode and ground conductor into your new service in the garage. DO NOT REMOVE THE GROUNDING CONDUCTOR OR BRASS SCREW BEFORE YOUR SERVICE CHANGE TO THE GARAGE IS COMPLETE.

The electrical requirements for moving a service is a serious job and I would highly advise contacting a master electrician (pretty sure it is mandatory) and have them perform the job. There's a high margin for error here and I can't advise you strong enough to not attempt it yourself.

[llwhiteoutll]

I don't think he can do it himself, last time I looked the city didn't allow work on the supply side of the main breaker under a homeowner's permit.