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Old 10-29-2020, 05:04 PM   #3201
Cecil Terwilliger
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RE: ventilation systems

Didn’t I just read an article, possibly posted here, about a lady who was covid positive who infected like 60 people at a Starbucks because she sat directly beneath the AC ventilation and it ended up spreading her covid germs throughout the store?

The story was notable because the only 4 people wearing masks were the employees and they all avoided infection.

Obviously that doesn’t account for the quality of the HVAC system.
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Old 10-29-2020, 05:07 PM   #3202
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I don't get why you keep bringing up the NBA thing. I said they helped bring one of the rapid tests to market for other leagues/countries/places/companies. Which they did.

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The Food and Drug Administration has authorized the use of a faster and easier test for the coronavirus. The SalivaDirect test was developed for people who have no COVID symptoms. It's thought to be about 90% as accurate as other tests using nose and throat swabs.

The developers expect up to 200,000 samples a day could be processed.

And helping to bring the test to market? The National Basketball Association.

Before checking into their isolated Orlando bubble with its daily COVID tests, some NBA players and staff volunteered to give saliva samples along with their standard nose and throat swabs.

When the NBA saliva samples were analyzed at Nathan Grubaugh's Yale University lab, his team found the results stacked up to the gold-standard swab tests.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronav...le-university/

Yes I did question the airline thing. Shutting down the travel industry without doing adequate research as to what the infection risk in planes actually was, and then basically ignoring it for months while accruing thousands of job losses and billions of dollars in spending to try and support the losses is going to go down as one of the dumber decisions in our governments history. Now, 8 months after suddenly rapid testing is being seen as a 'way out.' Well #####, maybe you should have thought about that months ago when rapid testing was being successfully used by sports leagues on a daily basis.

It is the same reason a lot of businesses are now fighting back and demanding the government actually provide data as to why certain policies, like restrictions are in place.

But hey, group think. Gotta love it.
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Old 10-29-2020, 05:25 PM   #3203
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Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
Man as society it would be nice if we could use this to embrace a "if you are sick stay home" general policy. There are issues with that, parents have to miss time from work, etc - but those are the pressure points we need to remove.
It's dumb that when we, or our kids, are sick that we feel that we have to send them off to school or show up to work still.

(reacting to the Hinshaw stuff)
But isn't the protocol explained below what most people usually do?

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For other symptoms, starting Monday, if a child only has one of the other non-core symptoms, they should stay home and monitor for 24 hours. If they improve after 24 hours, testing is not necessary and they can return to normal activities, Hinshaw says.
With the previous school protocols, if a child had a sore throat or runny nose, they could not return to school until they had a negative Covid test. A few weeks ago, my daughter had a sore throat and runny nose on Sunday and Monday, and my son had the same symptoms on Monday and Tuesday. Because they needed to be tested, and it takes several days to book a test and get results, they both missed a week of school.

Under the new protocols, they would have missed one day and two days of school. I wouldn't have sent them to school sick - I would have sent them after their symptoms cleared.
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Old 10-29-2020, 05:42 PM   #3204
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Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
The story was notable because the only 4 people wearing masks were the employees and they all avoided infection.
Reminds me to ask the question, we hear that I wear a mask to protect you, but why doesn’t it also provide me with some protection?
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Old 10-29-2020, 05:54 PM   #3205
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Originally Posted by Azure View Post
I don't get why you keep bringing up the NBA thing. I said they helped bring one of the rapid tests to market for other leagues/countries/places/companies. Which they did.
Not quite:

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Originally Posted by Azure View Post
The NBA wanted to create a bubble. The NBA wanted a test that would create fast results and would not be considered intrusive. The NBA teamed up with whoever the hell could give them a working model and got a test. The NBA then got that test approved and is using it on their players.

The NBA did all that in less time than it took the government to decide that masks were important.

We should be more like the NBA (who do not even employ scientists) and less like the federal government (who employ scientists) who couldn't decide we need to wear masks for the entire first few months of this damn pandemic.

Seriously, think about dumb these professional sport organizations are making our country look. Literally, dumb.

We have billions of dollars at our disposal and I have yet to hear about ANY government jurisdiction even coming close to doing what a bunch of entitled billionaires who are only in it for the money have done and are successfully using on a daily basis.
The NBA did not:
- Decide they needed a rapid non-intrusive test
- Partner with "whoever the hell" could create a working model
- Get the test approved
- Do it in less time it took the government to decide masks were important

They:
- Were approached by the people already developing the test
- Provided funding and test subjects
- Used the test alongside regular testing methods

Yale (the team actually responsible for the test)
- Developed the test
- Got the test approved
- Did it in more time than it took the government to decide masks were important

While the Government was in fact funnelling money into the development of rapid testing, but because you had "yet to hear about it" the Government looked dumb to you. And when the differences between daily testing of a sports organization with two separate tests was categorically different than implementing it across an entire country, you couldn't imagine why.

Quote:
Yes I did question the airline thing. Shutting down the travel industry without doing adequate research as to what the infection risk in planes actually was, and then basically ignoring it for months while accruing thousands of job losses and billions of dollars in spending to try and support the losses is going to go down as one of the dumber decisions in our governments history.
And you believed that was because of the misconception that planes themselves were unsafe, when it is and always was entirely obvious that it was to restrict spread of the virus from one location to another. Again, little information, big claims.

Quote:
Now, 8 months after suddenly rapid testing is being seen as a 'way out.' Well #####, maybe you should have thought about that months ago when rapid testing was being successfully used by sports leagues on a daily basis.
Yes, and I know you don't understand this, but that is how science and public policy works. It takes time, it takes money, it takes resources. Your continued belief that these things arent happening or arent in progress or that nobody had thought of it previously should be a pretty high indicator that you should stop and think, for just one minute, instead of labelling everything that brings an ounce of objective realism, critique, or context into your big claims as "negative" or "groupthink."

I know it feels good to think everything that disagrees with you as bad and play your role as an intellectual maverick thinking outside the norm of conventions, discovering things ahead of the government, outthinking them all, and that anything you don't understand or haven't considered is "bad." I get it. But again, we all want the same thing. So, when you present an idea, try to be accepting of people having questions, try to avoid jumping to wild conclusions and blaming the government for not doing things you've learned about today, yesterday.

Things move quickly, every government has a lot at stake, and individually we all want the exact same thing. Try to keep that in mind and drop the "me vs everyone else" mentality. You'll drive yourself insane with it, and you don't come off well-reasoned or worth trusting while doing it. It's ok if someone reads an article and thinks of something you disagree with or hadn't thought of. It's ok.

EDIT: And the reason I bring this stuff up is to remind you that things are changing, new information is coming out, new technologies are being developed and the way we understand the virus is changing. Being 100% confident in a conclusion knowing less than 50% of the information required is just so foolish right now. I've said before, this would be a good time to be humble and unafraid of changing our thinking over time, and knowing that what me might believe now could prove wrong in the future. There's no reason to be so sure of something you don't entirely understand. We've all been wrong several times over at this point.

Last edited by PepsiFree; 10-29-2020 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 10-29-2020, 06:05 PM   #3206
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We are now between 4 and 6000 new cases a day here in illinois.
New record of 6110 today.
What a ####ing mess.
Crazy how much of a difference there is between states. We just set a new high today in Oregon with 565 cases. Illinois has three times the population, but 10 times the total cases. (Cases per million though Illinois is 19th so that's actually not the worst number).
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Old 10-29-2020, 07:36 PM   #3207
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Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
RE: ventilation systems

Didn’t I just read an article, possibly posted here, about a lady who was covid positive who infected like 60 people at a Starbucks because she sat directly beneath the AC ventilation and it ended up spreading her covid germs throughout the store?

The story was notable because the only 4 people wearing masks were the employees and they all avoided infection.

Obviously that doesn’t account for the quality of the HVAC system.
That happened in some gymn too, I believe in Calgary, early on when some restrictions were being removed.

A woman was apprehensive about how fans were set up at the gymn, but went for a class anyhow, and became COVID positive. It was attributed to how the fans were placed.
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:40 PM   #3208
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This is fine: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-lockdown.html

People are packing stores and train stations to in anticipation of riding out the looming lockdown. Others are having one last go at the bars. Reminds me of the cobra effect
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Old 10-29-2020, 11:04 PM   #3209
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Taiwan celebrating 200 days without any local spread of coronavirus.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...-transmission/

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The United States recorded more than 80,000 new coronavirus infections and more than 1,000 related deaths Wednesday amid a nationwide surge in new cases. Taiwan, meanwhile, reached a milestone: 200 days without recording a single locally transmitted coronavirus infection.

Early in the year, as the virus spread in China, scientists anticipated that Taiwan could have the world’s second-worst outbreak, given its location and the frequency of daily flights from China, according to a March article in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

Instead, the opposite happened, as Taiwan harnessed lessons from past epidemics and took the virus seriously from the start. And while many countries that initially averted large outbreaks in the spring saw cases surge this summer or autumn, Taiwan has continued to stave off the worst of the pandemic.

“Taiwan quickly mobilized and instituted specific approaches for case identification, containment, and resource allocation to protect the public health,” the JAMA article said.

The island has also relied heavily on technology and public trust, tracking people once they cross the border to ensure they comply with the 14-day quarantine requirement, and creating an app that allowed residents to check which pharmacies had masks in stock. An article published this month in the Lancet notes that the island “had an established culture of face mask use” that meant many people began wearing masks in public before they were officially required to do so — and that the government was quick to ramp up production and form a plan to distribute masks to all residents.

Many experts have praised Taiwanese officials for acknowledging the dangers posed by the virus from the start — which may have been a crucial factor in stopping its spread.
Today and yesterday were Parent Teacher Conferences. We're all in the gym, as usual, meeting hundreds of parents and students face-to-face as usual.

Everyone is wearing masks, everyone has hand sanitizer, there is no food out, even with the high certainty that no one is ill, everyone is taking precautions.
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Old 10-30-2020, 02:03 AM   #3210
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Reminds me to ask the question, we hear that I wear a mask to protect you, but why doesn’t it also provide me with some protection?
It does.

https://www.pbs.org/video/how-well-d...s-work-ke2qje/
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Old 10-30-2020, 07:18 AM   #3211
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Paris putting curfews in place leads to thousands of people trying to leave for the countryside.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1321878671213416448
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Old 10-30-2020, 07:38 AM   #3212
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Originally Posted by Azure View Post
Paris putting curfews in place leads to thousands of people trying to leave for the countryside.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1321878671213416448
Oh no, traffic...

Looks like a typical 400 highway in Ontario on a Friday.
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Old 10-30-2020, 09:20 AM   #3213
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