[Trade] Canucks acquire JT Miller from Tampa for Mazanec, 3rd, and cond 1st

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by devo22

so a 2021 first.

So if they end up dead last, it could be first overall?

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by Barca

Green said that Miller will play on the top line with Pettersson and Boeser.

and in two years where some people are fearing the Canucks to be a lottery team, they add Podkolzin to the top 6.

Miller - Pettersson - Boeser
Pearson - Horvat - Podkolzin
Beartschi - Gaudette - Virtanen
Roussel - MacEwen - Granlund

i mean its not bad, definately not a lottery pick lineup.

Forwards aren’t the issue for this team. Unless they find a way to revamp their D in a hurry, trading a 1st round pick is kinda dumb.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

So if they end up dead last, it could be first overall?

Well it's the Canucks so no, if they kept the pick and scored no points at all in the season they would still drop down to third while Edmonton would get the top pick via the lottery, but as they have traded the pick the curse may work differently

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

So if they end up dead last, it could be first overall?

I think that they assume with a Calder winner and a Calder finalist in the past two years on their roster that they will continue to improve. It is a trade that isn't without risks, but I think that it should help propel them into a playoff spot in 2-3 years.

The risk will be if Markstrom leaves or if their defense doesn't improve.

The Canucks have a lot of depth in my opinion, but they lack the elite talent (ie Crosby, Ovechkin, Kane) that championship teams possess... Although St Louis isn't a team with elite level talent either, so who's to say what wins these days!

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

That could easily turn into a 2021 first over-all.

That would be hilarious if the first time the Canucks ever won a Draft Lottery it was with a pick they traded away two years earlier.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I think that they assume with a Calder winner and a Calder finalist in the past two years on their roster that they will continue to improve. It is a trade that isn't without risks, but I think that it should help propel them into a playoff spot in 2-3 years.

The risk will be if Markstrom leaves or if their defense doesn't improve.

The Canucks have a lot of depth in my opinion, but they lack the elite talent (ie Crosby, Ovechkin, Kane) that championship teams possess... Although St Louis isn't a team with elite level talent either, so who's to say what wins these days!

I think they are hoping Petterson becomes that, it isn't an entirely unfounded hope.
As a team though they are in that crap shoot area where if it all falls into place the managers a genius and if it doesn't he's a moron, in truth its largely unpredictable as you are relying on one or two young players improving.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Its very similar to the Hamonic trade. Although that Flames team had been a playoff team prior to that move. Still its the type of deal that helps mske a team better now but stops them from being great.

Similar but Flames gave up more without any protection. And got 3 years of control vs the 4 that Vancouver is getting.

Personally I don’t like these kinds of deals for teams that aren’t on the cusp of contending. I dearly wish the Flames could pull off the inverse of this deal, acquiring a potential lottery pick for someone we deem as expendable.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Well it's the Canucks so no, if they kept the pick and scored no points at all in the season they would still drop down to third while Edmonton would get the top pick via the lottery, but as they have traded the pick the curse may work differently

And given that it’s Tampa that owns the pick that’s a safe bet

[jonkaupp]

This is a very bad deal for the canucks, they are suffering from delusions of grandeur about where they currently are in their rebuild. That pick can very well be a lottery pick.

And ya, I think the Hamonic deal is a comparable. And I didn’t think that was a very good deal for Calgary either. I like Hamonic but it was too early for that kind of deal imo.

[Beninho]

Canucks fans on HF are pissed, I think a first is a slight overpayment but probably is a fair deal if it doesn’t become a lottery pick in 2 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

The trade is fine. Dude is a 26 year old top 6 winger for them on a reasonable contract. Makes more sense he plays on the 2nd line than the first, but he's a good fit there. This isn't a "go for it" move, it's a "we might be good enough to squeak into the playoffs while our young guys get better" move. They've just had two straight Calder nominees and have a decent shot at another one next year. As long as they don't do something incredibly stupid on July 1, they should be trending in the right direc-

https://www.tsn.ca/tyler-myers-to-me...nday-1.1327131

... Oh. Well... Nevermind then.

[Matt Reeeeead]

I’m generally ok with the value here but I wouldn’t have done it if I’m the canucks unless it was completely lottery protected (ie. maybe the condition that could have worked would be it turning into two early second round picks 2020 and 2021 if they weren’t in the playoffs this year...

Too much parity in the NHL right now, and Vancouver still has a ways to go to be a real force that this pick really is at risk of being a lottery pick. That’s scary when acquiring a non franchise player already eating up some cap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I actually think the Canucks have a ton of forward depth -- in fact, maybe too much.

Pettersson
Boeser
Horvat
Miller
Pearson
Goldobin
Baertschi
Eriksson
Virtanen
Roussel
Leivo
Granlund
Sutter
Motte
Beagle
Gaudette
Spooner
Schaller

Those are all good, NHL-calibre options. My issue with the Canucks is that their defense is unproven and injury-prone, and their goaltending situation is somewhat uncertain, but that team is starting to shape up quite nicely.

After Miller it's just a bunch of meh and worse

[TheoFleury]

I mean, when Tanner Pearson and/or Sven Baertschi could be 2nd liners, you've got problems

[Erick Estrada]

Athletic roundtable pretty unanimous that the Canucks got a good player for a high price. Overall consensus is that most think the Canucks may be trying too hard to accelerate their rebuild;

https://theathletic.com/1042120/2019...forward-group/

Dom Luszczyszyn: For the life of me I can’t understand why the Canucks would make this deal. J.T. Miller is a great top six option on a good value deal, a strong play-maker who puts his team in good positions via his play-driving ability. But he’s the type of player teams acquire when they’re one piece away. The Canucks, who finished 23rd last season, are not that team despite a strong prospect pool. They are not yet in a position to trade away first-round picks and there’s high risk involved in not lottery-protecting the 2021 part of the pick. It’s non-sensical to give up that kind of package for what was essentially a salary dump on Tampa Bay’s end. For the Lightning, this is an obvious coup and gives them much-needed cap flexibility on top of what could be a huge asset in draft pick capital.

It's pretty rare that a team in the Lightning's situation can bring in a 1st round pick for a non-elite player they have to move for salary cap reasons but this is probably why the Lightning have been a perennial good team of late as the best just keep getting better as a team with this talent having multiple 1st round picks will have a lot of options.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Athletic roundtable pretty unanimous that the Canucks got a good player for a high price. Overall consensus is that most think the Canucks may be trying too hard to accelerate their rebuild;

https://theathletic.com/1042120/2019...forward-group/

Yeah TB crushed it. Benning doing Benning things or is this from above? I certainly wouldn't be thrilled if I was a Canucks fan.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

I mean, when Tanner Pearson and/or Sven Baertschi could be 2nd liners, you've got problems

When sven is healthy hes a pretty good 2nd liner, him and bo have great chemistry

His issue is injuries

Pearson has 3 years with the kings of basically 0.5 pts per game, and put up 12 points in 19 games last year with vancouver

Are they great 2nd line options, no, but they arent a glaring weakness

I think people in general overvalue what an average 5th or 6th forward actually produces

Most teams, even good teams, it's usually somewhere between 35-55 points

[afc wimbledon]

It seems unlikely a team with the talent the Canucks have is going to be in genuine lottery pick territory in two years, possible but unlikely, I could see them not making the playoffs by a place or two but not bottom three, if the whole thing starts to fall apart for them next year they can trade Miller for likely a first round pick, that's the advantage of having a two year window and no NTC.

It could still end up being a mistake but if so it would look easy to mitigate, the Nucks aught, assuming he stays healthy and productive, be able to ship him for a pick back relatively easily, thus becoming a slight loss rather than a disaster

[ripTDR]

I think the key for the Canucks is to remain healthy, there's not a lot of depth for key injuries, and they seem to get a lot of them

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It seems unlikely a team with the talent the Canucks have is going to be in genuine lottery pick territory in two years, possible but unlikely, I could see them not making the playoffs by a place or two but not bottom three, if the whole thing starts to fall apart for them next year they can trade Miller for likely a first round pick, that's the advantage of having a two year window and no NTC.

It could still end up being a mistake but if so it would look easy to mitigate, the Nucks aught, assuming he stays healthy and productive, be able to ship him for a pick back relatively easily, thus becoming a slight loss rather than a disaster

Chicago went from 12 to 3. Any non playoff team might end up with a top 3 pick. Although the odds aren’t great, with 3 chances, it’s actually non unusual that a non bottom 10 team ends up with a top 3 pick.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk