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Old 01-24-2020, 10:48 AM   #2921
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I will always respect Eli for saving us from a perfect Patriots season.
Truth. But I give Justin Tuck and the Giants DL more credit than Eli (save for that final drive). 4 sacks for Tuck, only reason he wasn't MVP is because the QB's last name is Manning.

Same thing in the 06 Super Bowl when Peyton won it despite Colts RB Rhodes probably having the best offensive performance on the day, over 100 yards rushing and a score against a dominant front 7. But that's the Manning factor for ya.
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:10 AM   #2922
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Truth. But I give Justin Tuck and the Giants DL more credit than Eli (save for that final drive). 4 sacks for Tuck, only reason he wasn't MVP is because the QB's last name is Manning.

Same thing in the 06 Super Bowl when Peyton won it despite Colts RB Rhodes probably having the best offensive performance on the day, over 100 yards rushing and a score against a dominant front 7. But that's the Manning factor for ya.
I would say QB's in general get too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses so it makes sense that QB's would win MVP more than not. There's a lot of players on offense doing their jobs to perfection which make a QB look good. As good as Mahomes is (which sucks as a Raiders fan) he's being put in the best situation any QB has ever been placed in. Andy Reid makes every QB look a lot better than he is.
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Old 01-25-2020, 04:01 PM   #2923
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I can acknowledge he was better than Dilfer, Johnson, Hostetler, Williams, and Foles but it's kind of gross that he's going to likely go into the HOF one day as he is not deserving. Thoroughly mediocre in an era where plenty of non-HOF Qb's put up great numbers and Jim Plunkett couldn't get in winning two Super Bowls in near identical fashion because he wasn't elite so I don't know how Eli should.
just took a look at his numbers and wow, they are much worse than I expected. A QB who has a career completion percentage of 60 percent and a QB rating of 84 should absolutely not be in the HoF discussion. But you just know that the 2 SB MVPs, the longevity and him being a class act will get him there ... that's all that'll count in 5 years time.

Pretty funny to compare the QBs of the 2004 class.

Eli: 117-117 | 60.3 % | 57,023 yds | 366 TD - 244 INT | 84.1 rtg | 4x Pro Bowl | 2x Super Bowl Champion | 2x Super Bowl MVP
Rivers: 123-101 | 64.7 % | 59,271 yds | 397 TD - 198 INT | 95.1 rtg | 8x Pro Bowl
Ben: 144-71-1 | 64.3 % | 56,545 yds | 363 TD - 191 INT | 94.0 rtg | 6x Pro Bowl | 2x Super Bowl Champion

Eli has the worst record, the worst completion percentage by a mile, the fewest yards/game, the worst TD/INT ratio and the worst QB rating by a mile. Rivers has probably had the most consistent career out of all of them and I wouldn't be shocked if he was the only one of them to not make the HoF. Because really, in 5 or 6 years people will probably just say "he's never won anything".
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Old 01-25-2020, 04:40 PM   #2924
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Eli is also top 10 all time in

Pass attempts
Pass completions
Pass yards
Pass TD's


Add on his 2 SB's...and thats why he will get in.
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Old 01-25-2020, 05:01 PM   #2925
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Eli has the worst record, the worst completion percentage by a mile, the fewest yards/game, the worst TD/INT ratio and the worst QB rating by a mile. Rivers has probably had the most consistent career out of all of them and I wouldn't be shocked if he was the only one of them to not make the HoF. Because really, in 5 or 6 years people will probably just say "he's never won anything".
They will all 3 be in.
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Old 01-25-2020, 05:05 PM   #2926
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I would say QB's in general get too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses so it makes sense that QB's would win MVP more than not. There's a lot of players on offense doing their jobs to perfection which make a QB look good. As good as Mahomes is (which sucks as a Raiders fan) he's being put in the best situation any QB has ever been placed in. Andy Reid makes every QB look a lot better than he is.
I get what you're saying, but this simply is not true. They have an elite TE and an elite deep threat. Beyond that, they are very average at the skill positions other than Mahomes of course. Sure, Reid is a great offensive coach and that helps, no question, but...

I'm a Broncos fan. I don't love the Chiefs. Mahomes is the best QB in the league and it's not really close.
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Old 01-27-2020, 12:28 AM   #2927
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Eli is also top 10 all time in

Pass attempts
Pass completions
Pass yards
Pass TD's


Add on his 2 SB's...and thats why he will get in.
I mean a lot of those accomplishments are a result of longevity and freakishly good injury luck rather than excellent performance.

The reason Eli doesn't get in for me is that there was no point during his career where he would have been on the discussion for the best at his position. Hell, he wasn't even the best QB in his own division at any point.
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:01 AM   #2928
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I mean a lot of those accomplishments are a result of longevity and freakishly good injury luck rather than excellent performance.

The reason Eli doesn't get in for me is that there was no point during his career where he would have been on the discussion for the best at his position. Hell, he wasn't even the best QB in his own division at any point.
Im not disagreeing, but the fact is that the hall always puts lots of emphasis on being available and no one was more available than Eli. I mean its remarkable the guy missed ONE start in 14 years playing a position that almost invites season ending injuries every time they take the field.


Then combine that with 2 SB wins over the greatest franchise the game has ever seen when they were at their height of success....its a slam dunk.
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:07 AM   #2929
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I get what you're saying, but this simply is not true. They have an elite TE and an elite deep threat. Beyond that, they are very average at the skill positions other than Mahomes of course. Sure, Reid is a great offensive coach and that helps, no question, but...

I'm a Broncos fan. I don't love the Chiefs. Mahomes is the best QB in the league and it's not really close.
They aren't paying Sammy Watkins $16 million because he's a scrub. How many teams have a better 2nd receiver? Not many. Mecole Hardman is as fast as Hill as there's not a team in the NFL that has even close to the speed of the Chiefs. Their offensive line is also very good at pass blocking as it's as stacked an offense as there is in the NFL.

He's the best QB in the league. I'm not disputing that but I don't believe it's not close. I don't think you can underrate how Reid props up his QB's. AJ Feeley went 6-1 as a starter for the Eagles when McNabb got hurt one season and the Dolphins promptly traded a 2nd round pick for a guy that was a useless QB that looked good Reid's offense. He did the same thing with Nick Foles and he even turned around Michael Vick who after being out of the league for two years had by far is best passing seasons under Reid. Donovan McNabb was a pretty average QB that is in HOF discussion because of Reid. I personally think Deshaun Watson could do everything Mahomes could in that offense.
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:19 AM   #2930
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Sammy Watkins salary is pretty much irrelevant when you remember he misses 50% of the games with injuries. No doubt having Andy Reid helps a lot, but the natural talent has nothing to do with Andy Reid. He has the ability to make the most difficult throws look like pitch and catch. And, worth noting, Andy Reid is well known for choking, whereas Mahomes has already proven to be clutch as hell. If Dee Ford lines up onside last year he's very likely already a Super Bowl champ working on his second.

I get it, you're a Raiders fans and it sucks knowing a guy with the potential to be the greatest to ever do it is in your division for the next 10-15 years. And what sucks even more for you is you are currently stuck with the absolute worst kind of QB in Carr: Not bad enough to tank, not good enough to win anything with. So you basically have, well, Alex Smith. You need your Mahomes if you're ever gonna get over the hump.

And Watson would not be doing what Mahomes is if he had Reid. It's a nice thought, but his arm talent isn't in the same league as Mahomes.
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Old 01-27-2020, 08:28 AM   #2931
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Sammy Watkins salary is pretty much irrelevant when you remember he misses 50% of the games with injuries. No doubt having Andy Reid helps a lot, but the natural talent has nothing to do with Andy Reid. He has the ability to make the most difficult throws look like pitch and catch. And, worth noting, Andy Reid is well known for choking, whereas Mahomes has already proven to be clutch as hell. If Dee Ford lines up onside last year he's very likely already a Super Bowl champ working on his second.

I get it, you're a Raiders fans and it sucks knowing a guy with the potential to be the greatest to ever do it is in your division for the next 10-15 years. And what sucks even more for you is you are currently stuck with the absolute worst kind of QB in Carr: Not bad enough to tank, not good enough to win anything with. So you basically have, well, Alex Smith. You need your Mahomes if you're ever gonna get over the hump.

And Watson would not be doing what Mahomes is if he had Reid. It's a nice thought, but his arm talent isn't in the same league as Mahomes.
Watkins is leading the team receiving in the playoffs helping them get into their first SB in 50 years so that's hardly irrelevant. Nothing to do with being a Raiders fan and just calling it the way I see it as there's not a QB that hasn't looked considerably better under Reid. That's just a fact. With a washed up Jeff Garcia he even went 5-1 in the last 6 games of a season to make the playoffs, win a playoff game, almost two with a close loss in New Orleans that went to the final drive. Reid is THE QB whisperer. It's not even debatable IMO that Mahomes would not be the same outside of Reid's offense. He would still be elite but not as good as he's looked with the Chiefs. Anyone that debates this clearly hasn't paid attention to what Andy Reid has accomplished as an NFL head coach.

Also why do you reply so much with spite in this forum? The Raiders weren't even part of the discussion but you had to throw that in there just to take a dig at the team I cheer for. Are you like this with everyone in conversation as not everything has to be confrontational you know? Also what's your team as you like to take digs at everyone's teams here yet don't disclose who you follow. You should let us know so we can take digs at your team as well since you like to dish it out so much.

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Old 01-27-2020, 10:05 AM   #2932
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I think it's no coincidence that guys like Mahomes and Rogers have been very successful given the chance to start out on good teams that had other players in place, and were given some time to learn their teams offences.

I may have been more inclined to agree with the Deshaun Watson comment prior to these playoffs...but Mahomes has shown a whole new level in these playoffs. I mean don't get me wrong, Watson and Lamar Jackson will be extremely successful in their careers too. But at this point Mahomes can make reads and throws that a very select few can.
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Old 01-27-2020, 11:00 AM   #2933
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Watkins is leading the team receiving in the playoffs helping them get into their first SB in 50 years so that's hardly irrelevant. Nothing to do with being a Raiders fan and just calling it the way I see it as there's not a QB that hasn't looked considerably better under Reid. That's just a fact. With a washed up Jeff Garcia he even went 5-1 in the last 6 games of a season to make the playoffs, win a playoff game, almost two with a close loss in New Orleans that went to the final drive. Reid is THE QB whisperer. It's not even debatable IMO that Mahomes would not be the same outside of Reid's offense. He would still be elite but not as good as he's looked with the Chiefs. Anyone that debates this clearly hasn't paid attention to what Andy Reid has accomplished as an NFL head coach.

Also why do you reply so much with spite in this forum? The Raiders weren't even part of the discussion but you had to throw that in there just to take a dig at the team I cheer for. Are you like this with everyone in conversation as not everything has to be confrontational you know? Also what's your team as you like to take digs at everyone's teams here yet don't disclose who you follow. You should let us know so we can take digs at your team as well since you like to dish it out so much.
Andy Reid is a great coach, and Patrick Mahomes is a generational talent. Both things can be true. It's the combination that makes his potential unlimited, but he'd have to end up in a really bad situation (i.e. the Browns) to not be a top QB. You're downplaying him because you are a Raiders fan, so you're hoping he's another Andy Reid product, when he pretty clearly is insane on his own. Reid maybe ups his chances of being the greatest ever by a bit, but he's not a system player in the slightest. He is his own system, like Rodgers used to be and Peyton once was. You can talk yourself into hoping once Andy leaves he'll fall off, because you gotta have some hope right? But I've seen enough to believe his talent would work anywhere, and his leadership is off the charts too.

Also I've pretty clearly disclosed dozens of times I cheer for the Bucs. So thanks for the Super Bowl, I'll always share a deep love of the Raiders for that. And thanks for being more embarrassing than us post-2003, it's kept the fact the Bucs are a laughingstock to a minimum. The Bucs at least have high entertainment value with Jameis, so we suck, but we aren't boring like the Raiders.
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Old 01-28-2020, 01:55 PM   #2934
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that's a bold strategy, Cotton ... *facepalm*

https://twitter.com/user/status/1222259411655241729
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Old 01-28-2020, 02:03 PM   #2935
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Well I guess that's Deshaun's rookie deal going to waste then.
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Old 02-05-2020, 11:20 AM   #2936
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Browns GM Andrew Berry’s introductory press conference: Quick hits

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/202...uick-hits.html
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:13 PM   #2937
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Great read from Vince Young about his life and growing up. I wish things played out differently for him in Tennessee but still will always appreciate what he did for the franchise. IIRC I think the Titans cut McNair the same year they drafted Young instead of you know keeping McNair and having Young learn under him and sit for a season. I think had they kept McNair things would have played out differently for everyone.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en...to-vince-young
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