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Old 11-18-2019, 11:22 PM   #1
Samonadreau
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So I watched this little documentary on Netflix called "The Game Changers", some of you have probably already seen it.

Without getting too much into it, so much backing up plant based diets on the movie, but so many people trying to debunk it.... simple lougle search and you can find both.

Has anyone else looked into this? or watched the documentary, and thoughts?
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:37 PM   #2
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So I watched this little documentary on Netflix called "The Game Changers", some of you have probably already seen it.

Without getting too much into it, so much backing up plant based diets on the movie, but so many people trying to debunk it.... simple lougle search and you can find both.

Has anyone else looked into this? or watched the documentary, and thoughts?
Mostly the "debunks" are also debunkable with a simple google search.

(Or so I hear. Didn't watch it, don't care. It has nothing to do with why I eat something like 75% vegetarian already.)

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Old 11-18-2019, 11:41 PM   #3
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I'm usually pretty skeptical of netflix documentaries which always seem to have their fair share of smoke and mirrors.

Its entirely up to people to eat what they want to eat, whether being Vegan or omnivore diets.

I still remember Super Size Me, and the whole this is as sharp of a piece of propaganda as I've ever seen. I guy on a healthy veggie based diet suddenly shifts to eating McDonalds, and not only that a 5000 calorie a day McDonald's Diet while not doing significant exercise and he wonders why he wasn't feeling good and showing ill health.

There was also the massive lie when he went to get tested, told the doctor that he ate nothing but McDonald's and the doctor was pointing out severe liver damage. Meanwhile he later admitted that he was an alcoholic and had been a heavy drinker for quiet some time.



My point isn't that McDonalds is the Bastian of healthy eating or I'm defending them or their menu choices at all. However making a pretty suspect unscientific documentary for example and then not reaching out to MacDonalds for their counterpoint seemed to be dishonest.


Look there are absolute benefits to these documentaries as long as you take them for what they are. Usually one sided presentations of any argument with lots of smoke and mirrors thrown in. To me documentaries are slanted and dishonest, If you take them as face value as the gospel of truth on the subject, you're missing the entire big picture debate of the issue. Just my 2 cents.

https://perfectketo.com/game-changers-movie-fact-check/
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:07 AM   #4
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It's crazy how aggressive the two sides of the 'propaganda' are getting at each other, presumably because there's money and views at stake.

I believe I've read most of the updated reviews on the matter, and it basically boils down to "there are benefits to good diets", who knew.

There's very low evidence that eating a lot of read meat slightly increases your risk of certain cancers, but much is poor quality research. Any other claims against meat eating is referring to correlation studies which are very difficult to navigate and do NOT prove causation (ie frequent red meat eaters tend to be overweight, but not BECAUSE of the meat in their diet). These groups tend to have crap diets AND eat meat, rather than crap diets BECAUSE of meat.

To me, if there are no reasons you have to cut out meat (ie ethical or religious), why would you ever do it? Those diets are harder to maintain, and you risk deficiencies in B12/iron/protein (particularly complete protein). And yes, a good vegan diet will NOT have these deficiencies, but you are more likely to have them. The same way a meat diet is more likely to be associated with issues of its own.

Just eat well. Pretty simple.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:10 AM   #5
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Yes and pass the BBQ sauce. I eat a lot less red meat then I used to, but I still eat chicken and fish, and I'm good with that as long as I have my veggies with my meal.
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Old 11-19-2019, 02:27 AM   #6
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I do think that a huge portion of the North American diet is VERY VERY meat heavy and a lot of people could benefit from additional servings of vegetables and beans/legumes.

Meat has lot of nutrients for you and people do have that craving, I just think we may overdue it. One of the issues with large portions of meat is that it can crowd out your plate from other items with a huge nutritional components to it.

Beans, lentils and other legumes have the benefit of being extremely good for you, a ton of nutrients and vitamins and being dirt cheap. If people can learn how to make a bunch of basic dishes with the above such as stews, soups, side dishes and salads etc, your literally banking big time dollars.

Being of Greek background, the Mediterranean diet is a big part of my diet and religiously I usually take part in lent every Easter for approx 40+ days. Generally speaking I give up meat, fish and dairy products pretty much vegan. I can say personally that I feel amazing, have a ton of energy, always trim down a little and lost that bloat feeling. Reverting back to meat after that always takes a few days and the feeling of eating meat or flesh, is kinda gross until I get used to it.

It's not a diet I can sustain long term without eating meat and dairy but it always proves to me that eating more fruits, vegetables, beans and legumes makes me feel better and I lose weight.

One trend I generally don't like is that these days everything has to be gluten free, keto friendly or a "beyond meat" style meal. Rather than trying to turn every single dish "beyond meat", which normally involves more processed foods, just learn to cook and eat more dishes that are natural and made from scratch.

Sorry about the long post and I am not preaching to anybody. To each their own!
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Old 11-19-2019, 04:54 AM   #7
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It's nice to see the measured responses so far. I'm still an omnivore, but I definitely eat a lot less meat than I used to. My wife and I often do "Meatless Mondays" for our meal planning, just to give us a day out of the week where we eat a vegetarian diet.

In general, there's nothing wrong with most food so long as it is actually food and not processed crap. The other point is to not take any diet to an extreme. Too much meat can be detrimental to your health, but no meat at all can also be detrimental to your health if you're not careful and mindful about getting essential vitamins and nutrients in your diet another way. Any diet taken to an extreme can have significant health effects.

Things like high blood pressure or high cholesterol have significant genetic components, and while lifestyle factors like diet are contributors, they are often multi-factorial in nature and no one thing will change your levels.

There's also the issue of environmental concerns to make people think about their dietary choices. Issues of environmental degradation, water consumption, and even greenhouse gas emission are worsened by excessive animal farming, namely cattle. If those things are important to you, eating less meat (not necessarily NO meat) is a good thing for sustainability.

Mark Bittman's approach makes the most sense to me, and it's pretty easy to follow: Eat Vegan Before 6. Basically, you eat vegan meals before dinnertime, and then allow yourself the richer foods at that meal. You still get everything in your diet, but you eat less meat and dairy and more vegetables and whole grains. This came from a guy who had no interest in becoming a vegan, but knew that he needed to make some changes for his health.

Obviously, the Bittman approach is totally anecdotal and not scientific in any way, but it's just a simple way of getting a better balance of foods in the diet. Just something to consider.
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Old 11-19-2019, 05:20 AM   #8
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8 out of 10 Wu Tang Clan members are vegan. I'd be vegan too if it were easier. I suck at cooking. I have huge ethical issues with animal welfare but totally fail at living up to my own standards. And I think red meat is healthy for you in much the same way that cool refreshing smoke was a great way to finish off a meal in the 1950's.

Neat looking documentary by an ex UFC fighter. A lot of those guys are vegan.
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Old 11-19-2019, 06:40 AM   #9
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I watched that documentary and actually quite enjoyed it. I like the idea of eating a vegetarian diet, but I don't think I can actually make the jump. If I did, I would highly doubt I could skip dairy in particular.
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:21 AM   #10
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Default Plant Based Diets (The Game Changers)

I’ve been vegan for 5 or so years, it definitely helped me get off high blood pressure medication. I feel way more energetic in my 50s than I did for my 30s and 40s. It’s not easy to do - but living in California is definitely huge for choices when eating out.
My wife is s health educator with the hospital and teaches plant based eating classes - they are the most popular class amongst all they offer

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Old 11-19-2019, 10:01 AM   #11
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I watched the documentary and thought the information was consistent with other information I have read/watched on the subject. I have been moving towards a plant based diet over the past year. Initially, I thought I wouldn’t be able to do the switch because I ate a lot of meat. I now eat meat about once a week. Surprisingly to me, I don’t crave meat and I am finding I don’t like the texture or smell of meat now. I have found some plant based recipes to be disgusting, hello cashew paste panini sandwich and eggplant. On the other hand, basil paste and brussel sprouts are delicious. The changes in my body and energy have been positive. One outcome I really enjoy is not feeling heavy or bloated after a meat based meal.
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:13 AM   #12
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I watched the documentary and thought the information was consistent with other information I have read/watched on the subject. I have been moving towards a plant based diet over the past year. Initially, I thought I wouldn’t be able to do the switch because I ate a lot of meat. I now eat meat about once a week. Surprisingly to me, I don’t crave meat and I am finding I don’t like the texture or smell of meat now. I have found some plant based recipes to be disgusting, hello cashew paste panini sandwich and eggplant. On the other hand, basil paste and brussel sprouts are delicious. The changes in my body and energy have been positive. One outcome I really enjoy is not feeling heavy or bloated after a meat based meal.
Do you feel as satiated though? Like I have eaten a "low meat" diet at times over the past couple of years and I just don't find a lot of the meals as satisfying. I realise that's probably a good thing most of the time, but feeling good and full isn't always horrible either.
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:13 AM   #13
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It's nice to see the measured responses so far. I'm still an omnivore, but I definitely eat a lot less meat than I used to. My wife and I often do "Meatless Mondays" for our meal planning, just to give us a day out of the week where we eat a vegetarian diet.

In general, there's nothing wrong with most food so long as it is actually food and not processed crap. The other point is to not take any diet to an extreme. Too much meat can be detrimental to your health, but no meat at all can also be detrimental to your health if you're not careful and mindful about getting essential vitamins and nutrients in your diet another way. Any diet taken to an extreme can have significant health effects.

Things like high blood pressure or high cholesterol have significant genetic components, and while lifestyle factors like diet are contributors, they are often multi-factorial in nature and no one thing will change your levels.

There's also the issue of environmental concerns to make people think about their dietary choices. Issues of environmental degradation, water consumption, and even greenhouse gas emission are worsened by excessive animal farming, namely cattle. If those things are important to you, eating less meat (not necessarily NO meat) is a good thing for sustainability.

Mark Bittman's approach makes the most sense to me, and it's pretty easy to follow: Eat Vegan Before 6. Basically, you eat vegan meals before dinnertime, and then allow yourself the richer foods at that meal. You still get everything in your diet, but you eat less meat and dairy and more vegetables and whole grains. This came from a guy who had no interest in becoming a vegan, but knew that he needed to make some changes for his health.

Obviously, the Bittman approach is totally anecdotal and not scientific in any way, but it's just a simple way of getting a better balance of foods in the diet. Just something to consider.


I'll step up to bat here. Nothing wrong with making environmental choices when eating. That said, it is important not to throw the baby out with the bath water. A lot of the water that cows consume is rain water, and it is not drinking but actually the water it takes to make grass grow. It is important to understand that cow graze on unbroken land, that is to say that it is often land that a plow has never touched, a pasture, if properly maintained is an ecologically diverse and hosts a wide range of plants, insects and even animals. Comparatively, soy and lentils, beans and especially nuts are very intensive, they require a lot of fertilizer and pesticides and essentially turn large tracts into a single species. Likewise, the amount of water they require per square foot compared to a cow is higher. Cows use water from acres and acres of land because most of their water is captured in feed.

That being said, of all animals cows use the most water, so if that really bothers you I would suggest eating pigs, goats, sheep or chickens that take up less water compared to cows while allowing for ecological spaces and native spices to be preserved.
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:29 AM   #14
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:43 AM   #15
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Do you feel as satiated though? Like I have eaten a "low meat" diet at times over the past couple of years and I just don't find a lot of the meals as satisfying. I realise that's probably a good thing most of the time, but feeling good and full isn't always horrible either.
I have tried plant based diets in the past and relied on salads and leafy meals. I felt hungry all of the time, hence the diet changes ended. The recipes I have been using recently are more filling and I am not hungry an hour later. A couple of these recipes are black bean burgers, black bean tortillas, and overnight oats. I found these meals to be filling and lasting. The oats and tortillas were delicious. The black bean burgers were delicious but it took me a bit to get used to the texture. I find that these recipes call for more spices than I used previously and I feel like my meals now have greater variety in taste. Between meals, I eat whole grain breads, fruit, nuts and seeds. I haven’t cut out dairy but have reduced my use significantly. I’m quite active and a bigger guy; I didn’t think the meals would meet my needs but I my energy levels are fine.
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:39 AM   #16
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I follow a guy on insta that follows the carnivore diet.....all meat and eggs. Nothing else, no vegetables, no fruit.

https://www.shawn-baker.com/

I could never do it, but it's pretty interesting to see his results.
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:52 AM   #17
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^ wtf I'd be constipated.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:08 PM   #18
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I follow a guy on insta that follows the carnivore diet.....all meat and eggs. Nothing else, no vegetables, no fruit.

https://www.shawn-baker.com/

I could never do it, but it's pretty interesting to see his results.
Firstly, I think everyone has different dietary needs. One thing I will say about plant-based diets is that I've seen several people lose dramatic amounts of body fat on them.

I find I get the best results from a near all lean meat protein diet. I've tried plant based, and just lost weight, which wasn't great for me as I am naturally small. I tried everything to maintain weight and muscle mass. I consumed huge amounts of Cassava, lentils, nuts, textured vegetable protein, soy, etc...

The all (well almost all) chicken and eggs diets was the only diet I've had where I managed to not only lose fat dramatically, but also put on muscle and increase strength. I was on that diet for about 6 weeks, but found it very restrictive and unsustainable. It worked though.

Another thing to watch out for is that many of the people promoting various diets and supplements are using PEDs. If your goal is to looks lean and low fat, the effect of PEDs is dramatic, as they will prioritize muscle retention, even in a calorie deficit. Specifically, I'd be suspect of MMA fighters and strongmen athletes.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:56 PM   #19
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I have tried plant based diets in the past and relied on salads and leafy meals. I felt hungry all of the time, hence the diet changes ended. The recipes I have been using recently are more filling and I am not hungry an hour later. A couple of these recipes are black bean burgers, black bean tortillas, and overnight oats. I found these meals to be filling and lasting. The oats and tortillas were delicious. The black bean burgers were delicious but it took me a bit to get used to the texture. I find that these recipes call for more spices than I used previously and I feel like my meals now have greater variety in taste. Between meals, I eat whole grain breads, fruit, nuts and seeds. I haven’t cut out dairy but have reduced my use significantly. I’m quite active and a bigger guy; I didn’t think the meals would meet my needs but I my energy levels are fine.
Beans and lentils are so healthy, tasty and cheap. I don't eat a pure veggie diet but we eat quite a few veggie meals.

Admittedly I haven't met a black bean burger I prefer to a beef one but portobello burgers are pretty close!
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Old 11-19-2019, 01:06 PM   #20
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I stopped eating meat again recently, as in just over a month ago, and I feel better for it. I don't really miss meat or animal products and had already been asking my wife to reduce meat in what she cooks for a while. It's very easy to have tasty meals without animal products if you use spices well. There's a lot of variety in flavours and textures in the plant-based foods of the world, so I find there is no significant lack of variety. Making the switch to plant-based without embracing and exploring the variety of plant-based foods and flavours would be tough though .
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