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Old 10-18-2019, 11:24 AM   #1281
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Originally Posted by speede5 View Post
I think its a stretch to blame a culture of hazing and childish behaviour that started in basic on a drug that was used in theater.

While there were key breakdowns in the leadership (both officer and NCO) in the Airborne, I fully believe that some of what occurred in Belut Huen and the tour in general can be attributed to Mefloquine. At the very least the soldier's mental state wasn't aided by the drug.

The side affects of Mefloquine can be seem all over that tour, and future tours, at least this is what my friends tell me that took the drug.
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Old 10-18-2019, 11:35 AM   #1282
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Quote:
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I think its a stretch to blame a culture of hazing and childish behaviour that started in basic on a drug that was used in theater.

I don't believe its a stretch at all.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...suit-1.5030314


Quote:
ohn Dowe, a plaintiff in the pending lawsuits, will speak at Saturday's town hall meeting in north Edmonton. Dowe, who served with the Canadians Forces from 1990 to 2000, took mefloquine tablets while serving in 1992 with the now-infamous Canadian Airborne Regiment in Somalia.


He said the adverse effects of the drugs were immediate and troubling, and that he still feels them to this day.


"That tour was supposed to undergo a clinical drug trial with Health Canada and the Department of National Defence," said Dowe, who has since been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder.


"I suffered acute symptoms of hyper-vigilance, anxiety, disassociation, insomnia and sleep disturbances. Those were the main ones. Unfortunately today, I still have chronic symptoms."

Quote:
Master Cpl. Clayton Matchee, one of the two soldiers eventually charged in Arone's death, had "wigged out," Dowe said. He was beating imaginary camel spiders in the bunker where he held the bruised Somali prisoner before the teen's body was found an hour later.


The Saskatchewan soldier was later found hanging in his cell. He suffered irreparable brain damage as a result of the suicide attempt.

You had solider's in afghanistan that had days labeled by the mood after they were given the drug.


Manic Monday

Paranoid Tuesday etc etc.


https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...s-side-effects


https://torontosun.com/news/national...oquine-answers


Quote:
Matchee and his fellow soldiers had been given mefloquine (also known as Lariam), an anti-malarial drug, prior to its licensing by Canadian health officials and outside an approved experimental use protocol.


Troops were neither issued a written warning about dangerous side effects (and the need to stop taking the drug should any such side effects be experienced), nor were they asked to sign a consent form.


Matchee experienced nightmares, anxiety and hallucinations while taking the drug; prior to the death of Arone, when Matchee was still in Canada, his wife saw evidence of the drug’s terrible effects. Matchee was under orders not to stop taking the drug.


On the night Arone died, then-Trooper John Dowe heard Matchee talk about camel spiders in the bunker they were in and spiders on Arone’s body; there were no spiders, and Matchee was hallucinating, according to Dowe.
As Dr. Nevin has explained, “Visual hallucinations are a prominent feature of mefloquine psychosis, which can be associated with acts of violence towards the self and others.”
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Old 10-18-2019, 12:19 PM   #1283
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I've taken it. Woke up with Thai girls going through our backpacks, walking around our hut carrying knives. Took a good 2 minutes for my brain to reset and the girls disappeared. So ya, I can believe the stories. I only took it for a week.
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Old 10-18-2019, 12:34 PM   #1284
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My first instinct fuzz was to thank your post, but I didn't think that would feel right.
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Old 10-18-2019, 06:54 PM   #1285
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And so the timeless quest for the pharmaceutical enhanced "super-soldier" continues (this began in the 1930's with crystal meth/Pervitan).
It's been an ongoing pursuit ever since.
It saddens me to read the posts above.
You can't deprive a human being of a regular sleep schedule without facing the consequences (in psychological effect) on said human being.
This was thoroughly proven in the 1950's (USAF studies on aircrew) and the question has to be?
Why keep trying this approach?
If we keep tinkering with these stimulants (and using our soldiers as guinea pigs) we're eventually going to find the "miracle pill"?
This makes me sad...we are better than this crap.
We already make/field some of the best soldiers in the world.

That is all.
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Old 10-18-2019, 08:54 PM   #1286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindair Dundat View Post
And so the timeless quest for the pharmaceutical enhanced "super-soldier" continues (this began in the 1930's with crystal meth/Pervitan).
It's been an ongoing pursuit ever since.
It saddens me to read the posts above.
You can't deprive a human being of a regular sleep schedule without facing the consequences (in psychological effect) on said human being.
This was thoroughly proven in the 1950's (USAF studies on aircrew) and the question has to be?
Why keep trying this approach?
If we keep tinkering with these stimulants (and using our soldiers as guinea pigs) we're eventually going to find the "miracle pill"?
This makes me sad...we are better than this crap.
We already make/field some of the best soldiers in the world.

That is all.

These weren't stimulants though, these were badly developed and tested anti-malaria pills that ruined lives.


The government is going to face the music on that one.
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Old 10-19-2019, 05:06 PM   #1287
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
These weren't stimulants though, these were badly developed and tested anti-malaria pills that ruined lives.


The government is going to face the music on that one.

My bad. Simply made an assumption based on the side effects described within the quoted testimonials.

I figured it possible that they were probably going for a "hybrid" of some sort?

I.E. ?


"Here bud, take your "malaria" pill so you don't get sick...


Walter Matthau sez: "Never assume...you only make an (etc, etc)" LOL!


I'm intrigued as to what the hell kind of organics (had to be some sort of organic chemistry by my guess) they were working on to try and achieve the result?
A huntin' we will go...

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Old 10-19-2019, 06:24 PM   #1288
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This has nothing to do with the government experimenting on soldiers. It was a common anti-malarial drug with known side-effects back then. I wasn't in the military, I got it from a travel clinic. The problem is they knew about the side effects and ignored or down played them.
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:58 PM   #1289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
This has nothing to do with the government experimenting on soldiers. It was a common anti-malarial drug with known side-effects back then. I wasn't in the military, I got it from a travel clinic. The problem is they knew about the side effects and ignored or down played them.

Something something gay frogs

New world order,

pacify the masses,

Trilateral Commission,

Illuminati,

Grey men,

Freemasons,

frankfurt school operatives,

Manitoba legislative building,

MKULTRA,

Project Monarch,

Oh hey Look at this:

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Old 10-31-2019, 09:19 AM   #1290
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Oct 31, 1944

Airaghardt
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Old 11-01-2019, 07:43 PM   #1291
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Oct 31, 1944

Airaghardt
There is some good written history in existence which examines this largely forgotten aspect of our Nation's contribution to the ultimate outcome of the Second World War.

J.L. Granatstein and Terry Copp have both published works which deal with this campaign, well worth the time to go down to your local library and give them a read.
In my opinion these books are essential to understanding our nation's evolution from a Colonial backwater to a Global power in the 1950's.


Or something like that.
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:24 PM   #1292
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Granatstein is a must read for military history buffs. And also those that are interested in the problem with the current military.
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Old 11-02-2019, 12:02 AM   #1293
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Terry Copp's Fields of Fire is one of the most important reads ever.
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Old 11-03-2019, 09:38 AM   #1294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindair Dundat View Post
There is some good written history in existence which examines this largely forgotten aspect of our Nation's contribution to the ultimate outcome of the Second World War.

J.L. Granatstein and Terry Copp have both published works which deal with this campaign, well worth the time to go down to your local library and give them a read.
In my opinion these books are essential to understanding our nation's evolution from a Colonial backwater to a Global power in the 1950's.


Or something like that.
A phucking meat grinder of a campaign.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:12 PM   #1295
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Is the fighter jet procurement going to come down to buying a inferior end of life plane to save jobs in Quebec.


https://ottawacitizen.com/news/natio...cked-by-canada


Quote:
In early September, the union representing machinists in the aerospace industry warned that the changes made for Lockheed Martin would come at the expense of other firms offering guaranteed work for Canada’s aerospace sector. In addition, the union is worried that if Canada were to purchase the F-35 then most of the key maintenance would be done in the U.S., putting in jeopardy 600 jobs at L-3 in Mirabel, Que. L-3 conducts maintenance on the Royal Canadian Air Force’s current CF-18 fighter fleet.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:37 PM   #1296
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Is the fighter jet procurement going to come down to buying a inferior end of life plane to save jobs in Quebec.


https://ottawacitizen.com/news/natio...cked-by-canada
No Way!

There is no chance the Canadian military does something like that.

Ridiculous to suggest it!

Spoiler!
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Old 11-21-2019, 12:20 PM   #1297
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New SAR aircraft deliveries delayed due to our refusal to accept them over the manuals that come with them. The issue with them is not specified.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/polit...cid=spartandhp
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