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Old 11-02-2019, 11:36 AM   #1581
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/31/u...l-culture.html

So what he's saying in a way is that the use of incorrect nouns/adjectives to describe another person, and calling them out for it, is not conducive to changing culture.

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“This idea of purity and you’re never compromised and you’re always politically ‘woke’ and all that stuff,” Mr. Obama said. “You should get over that quickly.”

“The world is messy; there are ambiguities,” he continued. “People who do really good stuff have flaws. People who you are fighting may love their kids, and share certain things with you.”
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:12 PM   #1582
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Beyond being a peddler and practitioner of pseudoscience nonsense, Peterson's arguments often fall apart under any kind of intellectual scrutiny. It was interesting seeing Cliff argue that no "left-wing" intellectual heavyweights were willing to debate Peterson, but he got exposed pretty badly when he debated Zizek in Toronto. His ideas are often revealed to be pretty extreme and nonsensical once you get past the word salads he uses to dress them up in, and he has a bad tendency to weigh-in (almost always incorrectly/incoherently) on topics he has virtually no expertise in.
Peterson started to register on a Trump level of clueless joke in that.

I think it's totally fair to label Peterson an intellectual fraud. He showed that not only does he lack the ability understand even the basics of political philosophy and its relationship to history and the real world in general, he's too lazy to actually read up on a topic he constantly lectures others on. He also a lot of the time doesn't engage the other persons, arguments at all, which is kind if a fundamental skill in a debate.

Some of my friends from the department of political history watch Peterson (as well as other "internet intellectuals") as a drinking game. You can get pretty drunk on "logical non sequitur" alone.

Last edited by Itse; 11-02-2019 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 11-04-2019, 11:52 AM   #1583
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Let's not give Zizek a pass here either.
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Old 11-04-2019, 11:54 AM   #1584
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Let's not give Zizek a pass here either.
I don't think anyone is, but if that's your opinion, it actually speaks even less of Peterson.
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Old 11-04-2019, 11:56 AM   #1585
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I don't think anyone is, but if that's your opinion, it actually speaks even less of Peterson.
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Old 11-04-2019, 01:31 PM   #1586
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Let's not give Zizek a pass here either.
A pass for what?

There's a massive difference between having kind of terrible opinions about stuff, and lecturing people on stuff you don't know anything about.

Zizek is the first. Peterson is both. I don't like Zizek, but he's in no sense of the word a fraud.

Peterson is a charlatan who has made a career out of lecturing to the ignorant.
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Old 11-04-2019, 01:38 PM   #1587
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A pass for what?

There's a massive difference between having kind of terrible opinions about stuff, and lecturing people on stuff you don't know anything about.

Zizek is the first. Peterson is both. I don't like Zizek, but he's in no sense of the word a fraud.

Peterson is a charlatan who has made a career out of lecturing to the ignorant.
Zizek has terrible opinions on things. Like genuinely immoral horrible opinions.

That said, yes, Zizek is a pretty great Hegel scholar, but his public persona is just as formulated as Peterson's.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:41 AM   #1588
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Originally Posted by peter12 View Post
Zizek has terrible opinions on things. Like genuinely immoral horrible opinions.

That said, yes, Zizek is a pretty great Hegel scholar, but his public persona is just as formulated as Peterson's.
Yeah I'd agree that Zizek has his similarities with Peterson and other pop thinkers of the internet age. The guy loves attention. Just because he's intellectually a clear level above hacks like Peterson is not a defense of him as a person or his opinions. He can also be just as intellectually lazy. Just because he has an actual depth of knowledge he can tap into doesn't mean he always bothers to use it. A shame really.

That said, I don't even remember anymore what Zizek said that made me go "eww" back in the day.

Refresh my memory?

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Old 11-18-2019, 11:38 AM   #1589
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Pretty emotional interview with Rex Murphy.

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Old 11-18-2019, 11:43 AM   #1590
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Old 11-18-2019, 12:08 PM   #1591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter12 View Post
Zizek has terrible opinions on things. Like genuinely immoral horrible opinions.

That said, yes, Zizek is a pretty great Hegel scholar, but his public persona is just as formulated as Peterson's.
Zizek is an edge-lord without a doubt. All the same, his work does have academic merit in the sense that it provides tools that help understanding discourse.

The debate of public persona is an interesting one, it is kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If one only interacts in academic circles they are chastised as living in an ivory tower and circle jerking. If they want to have any public credibility they need to brand themselves, or at least understand that people will based all of their work on a 20 second sound bite.

It is no wonder mental health issues are so bad in academia, it is a process of ####ting all over everything, and having your life's work #### all over by people who don't read it, or refuse to see any value in it.
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Old 11-18-2019, 12:11 PM   #1592
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Originally Posted by Itse View Post
Yeah I'd agree that Zizek has his similarities with Peterson and other pop thinkers of the internet age. The guy loves attention. Just because he's intellectually a clear level above hacks like Peterson is not a defense of him as a person or his opinions. He can also be just as intellectually lazy. Just because he has an actual depth of knowledge he can tap into doesn't mean he always bothers to use it. A shame really.

That said, I don't even remember anymore what Zizek said that made me go "eww" back in the day.

Refresh my memory?
He has said some pretty inflammatory things about Stalin.
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