[News] UPD: Arbitrator upholds Voynov's 1 yr suspension but credits him 41 games served

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Samuelsson

Apologies, should have specified that I'm in England, which is obviously irrelevant in this context!


Battery is battery, ABH is ABH and GBH is GBH, whether you're married or not.

It's not that they are different crimes here. It's that judges look at circumstances in sentencing and domestic violence is a "circumstance" that is usually treated as aggravating.

[Rollin22x]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You aren't this stupid, and you know that Moore had, in fact, already dropped the gloves. Come back when you are willing to make an honest argument.

Moore did not drop his gloves. He was punched from behind as he was skating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yxMbWlnWV8

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Rollin22x

Moore did not drop his gloves. He was punched from behind as he was skating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yxMbWlnWV8

Well he's actually kind of right. In the first period of that game Moore and Cooke dropped the mitts.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Rollin22x

Moore did not drop his gloves. He was punched from behind as he was skating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yxMbWlnWV8

As noted, Moore already fought in that game.

The whole "Moore should have fought Bertuzzi too" argument was an invention of Vancouver Canucks fans* who made it clear that their blood lust would only be satisfied when Moore literally ended up laying in a pool of his own blood. They got their wish

(* - and, it would appear, some Flames fans who are trying really, really hard to rationalize cheering for Bertuzzi because he was a Flame. Which happens to prove my point.)

[Rollin22x]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

As noted, Moore already fought in that game.

The whole "Moore should have fought Bertuzzi too" argument was an invention of Vancouver Canucks fans* who made it clear that their blood lust would only be satisfied when Moore ended up laying in a pool of his own blood. They got their wish

(* - and, it would appear, some Flames fans who are trying really, really hard to rationalize cheering for Bertuzzi because he was a Flame. Which happens to prove my point.)

Not rationalizing, just pointing out the fact that he did not drop his gloves with Bertuzzi.

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Rollin22x

Not rationalizing, just pointing out the fact that he did not drop his gloves with Bertuzzi.

Why did he have to? He already fought Cooke literally in that same game. Are you actually defending Todd Bertuzzi here??

[Samuelsson]

Kangaroo court of public opinion in full-flow. He wasn't even charged, apparently? And his wife wrote a letter to the LA County DA to not charge him, and that he didn't intend to injure her.

Odd.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Samuelsson

Kangaroo court of public opinion in full-flow. He wasn't even charged, apparently? And his wife wrote a letter to the LA County DA to not charge him, and that he didn't intend to injure her.

Odd.

He was charged with a felony. He pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor. He got 90 days. He was also held by ICE without bond and essentially chose self-deportation.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Samuelsson

Kangaroo court of public opinion in full-flow. He wasn't even charged, apparently? And his wife wrote a letter to the LA County DA to not charge him, and that he didn't intend to injure her.

Odd.

https://www.tsn.ca/talent/legal-look...-wife-1.160584

Disturbing Evidence of a Beating

Here are some of the more disturbing allegations raised in Court today as reproduced from Fenno’s Twitter timeline:

- Redondo Beach police officer: Voynov's wife had laceration over left eye, blood streaming, red marks on neck.

- Officer says Voynov's wife said he struck her in the face with his fist.

- Officer: Voynov pushed wife to ground multiple times, kicked her repeatedly while on ground, chocked her three times.

- Officer: Voynov pushed her into flat-screen TV where she cut her face.

- Officer: Voynov's wife required eight stitches to close wound above left eye.

- Officer: "There's bruising, red marks, scratches on the victim's neck."

- At Voynov's home, the officer noted blood all over bedroom, including covering comforter and a bloody handprint on floor.

- Lead prosecutor Frank Dunnick: "there's evidence to suggest prior domestic violence" involving Voynov.

[Samuelsson]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

https://www.tsn.ca/talent/legal-look...-wife-1.160584

Yeah, I read it. But, unless I'm mistaken, that's not what he was charged with, or was it? He got a misdemeanour offence, and 90-odd days.

I mean, hell, if our legal systems are based on what a claimant said a defendant did, the majority of the world would be locked up.

Another disclaimer: I am not saying Voynov didn't hit his wife, at all. It's quite obvious that he did. But the extent to which he did is questionable. And apparently to the courts, too.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

The impact of whatever voynov did to his wife isn't even close to comparable to breaking someone's spine and ruining their life.
Steve Moore will never be the same. The incident happened in the NHL on the commissioners watch. That suggests for a harsher penalty by the NHL for conduct that is unbecoming to the game.

The courts figured the cost of the pain and financial loss sufferered by Moore at the hands of Bert was in the millions. Bert got a 20 game suspension, with the NHL citing the emotion strain on his family.

Now the NHL turns around and gives Voynov a defacto 6 year suspension. The NHL doesn't consider the toll such a large suspension has on his family - which is huge from a financial and emotional perspective.

Watson got 18 games for domestic violence. Voynov got multiple years...

It makes no sense. What am I missing? How is a suspension this large justified - is it because he went to play in Russia?

Bertuzzi did something on the ice. Obviously went beyond the rules of the game but it was still within a different set of circumstances.

Watson is alleged to have pushed his partner causing red marks on her chest.

Voynov is alleged to have punched his partner in the face, put her head into a television, and kicked her while she was on the ground.

Sure maybe it is because he went to Russia, I think it is because he abused his partner pretty horrifically.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Samuelsson

Kangaroo court of public opinion in full-flow. He wasn't even charged, apparently? And his wife wrote a letter to the LA County DA to not charge him, and that he didn't intend to injure her.

Odd.

It's not odd. Most victims of domestic assault recant later. His income was her income, plus victims feel bad for the perpetrators. If he got deported, she had to go to.

He pled no contest. He hear the crap out of her more than this once, and it was a prolonged attack. He didn't just lose his temper once and make a mistake.

There was blood everywhere and bruises consistent with choking on her neck.

I'm not sure what you're defending here. Domestic assault is something as a society we NEED to do better on. We tacitly as a society turn a blind eye all the time, and these women are trapped. One way to do that is for organizations with control over role models to take this seriously. Reinstating him doesn't do that.

[bcneil]

Sadly this will just make sure wives will keep their mouth shut.
The last thing his wife wanted, was his income gone.

[Samuelsson]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

It's not odd. Most victims of domestic assault recant later. His income was her income, plus victims feel bad for the perpetrators. If he got deported, she had to go to.

He pled no contest. He hear the crap out of her more than this once, and it was a prolonged attack. He didn't just lose his temper once and make a mistake.

There was blood everywhere and bruises consistent with choking on her neck.

I'm not sure what you're defending here. Domestic assault is something as a society we NEED to do better on. We tacitly as a society turn a blind eye all the time, and these women are trapped. One way to do that is for organizations with control over role models to take this seriously. Reinstating him doesn't do that.

I agree with everything you've just said. All of it. Of course we need to do more. I've not said anything to the contrary.

I'm only defending ones right to be accused of what they were actually sentenced for - nothing more, nothing less.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Samuelsson

Yeah, I read it. But, unless I'm mistaken, that's not what he was charged with, or was it? He got a misdemeanour offence, and 90-odd days.

I mean, hell, if our legal systems are based on what a claimant said a defendant did, the majority of the world would be locked up.

Another disclaimer: I am not saying Voynov didn't hit his wife, at all. It's quite obvious that he did. But the extent to which he did is questionable. And apparently to the courts, too.

Again, he was charged with a felony. The fact he was eventually convicted of a lesser misdemeanor was a product of not wanting to call his wife to testify against her will, getting the matter finished, etc. Like all plea bargains.

Also, a trial wouldn't be based on what only she said. It'd be based on the physical evidence on scene, the post-incident observations of the attending officers, medical evidence, etc.

Plenty of domestic assault victims say they will refuse to testify and/or change their stories. So their initial stories, told at risk of being charged with making a false statement or a phony 911 call, have more weight.

[Samuelsson]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Again, he was charged with a felony. The fact he was eventually convicted of a lesser misdemeanor was a product of not wanting to call his wife to testify against her will, getting the matter finished, etc. Like all plea bargains.

Also, a trial wouldn't be based on what only she said. It'd be based on the physical evidence on scene, the post-incident observations of the attending officers, medical evidence, etc.

Plenty of domestic assault victims say they will refuse to testify and/or change their stories. So their initial stories, told at risk of being charged with making a false statement or a phony 911 call, have more weight.

Without meaning to be inflammatory, I hope that's not how Canada runs its legal system.

Anyway, the NHL are right to ban him; as long as they do the same to all future players who commit the same or an equivalent offence, and I hope the public outcry is just as loud for those times, too.

[Resolute 14]

The fact that you are white knighting for a guy who put his wife's face through a television is repugnant.

[Samuelsson]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The fact that you are white knighting for a guy who put his wife's face through a television is repugnant.

Please, conduct yourself with more decorum. The mere fact that you are accusing me of this - despite being completely untrue - is only highlighting how immature and petty you are.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Samuelsson

I agree with everything you've just said. All of it. Of course we need to do more. I've not said anything to the contrary.



I'm only defending ones right to be accused of what they were actually sentenced for - nothing more, nothing less.

He has no right in the court of public opinion for us to change our recourse simply because the victim would not testify.

He did those things and they're awful. What the courts can or can't do is immaterial. We aren't the legal system. We regularly lobby to have or not have players on our team for non legal reasons. I didn't want Avery on the Flames, but not because of legal reasons. The legality isn't the issue here.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Hell, the NHL wants to build their female fanbase... good luck with a team doing that if they bring this sack of crap aboard.

I'm sure Voynov's wife will be sitting beside him at the first press conference. The fact the couple are reconciled plays into the public perception of these things.